I found out the vet had cut the eagle off for whatever reason,ill have it in hand tomorrow so Ill have a better feel.I'm the second owner I guess it went from the vet to Hayes to me.
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partial
I have seen many things, out of European Closet's, partially de-nazified in the strangest ways that make zero sense.Originally posted by wewelsburg View PostComment
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I got info today from a very very good source that cape length and collar style were left up to the officer,and it was permitted!Nice to know.Ill put up pics today if anyone is interested.I think Im gonna use the black sidecap to display it,like Eicke did.It just has a good "look" those pieces together.
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Originally posted by wewelsburg View PostI got info today from a very very good source that cape length and collar style were left up to the officer,and it was permitted!Nice to know.Ill put up pics today if anyone is interested.I think Im gonna use the black sidecap to display it,like Eicke did.It just has a good "look" those pieces together.
your cape hasnt been shortened, its been cut in half!Comment
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yeah thats a long one!But it was up to officer,its like the short Dr,Jeckyll type,ya know like Jack the Ripper!I dont mind,I like it short,that would be my style If i wore one then!hahaCome t o find out its named to Obersturmbannfuhrer Drape of the SS-Hauptamt see teh post about label..http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=505892Comment
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Slight differences in cut/tailoring were acceptable for privately purchased uniforms, but there was not the sort of broad latitude you seem to think there was. The basic design specifications for uniforms were expected to be followed, regardless of where a uniform item was made, and specifications were published for tailors to follow. I refuse to believe that something this short would have been acceptable as an individual officer's expression of his personal style. After all, the word "uniform" tells you that the items are expected to be...well...uniform (meaning "the same").Originally posted by wewelsburg View PostComment
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aha regulations for fancy SS Uniforms like Litewkas, formal evening dress tunics etc. Nothing really would surprise me about this matter with that what is already known and found and resides in some nice collections.Comment
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The shortening of this cape, to me seems debonaire. Maybe even feminine.
Is it possible this could have been modified/worn by a woman?
Surely, it is high style!
At what point does it qualify as a shawl?
Jack
Last edited by Jack D.; 03-31-2011, 10:16 PM.Comment
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well thats your opinion,and thats nice,but never said anything was broad!But I was referred by the good DR. to an aquaintence of his on the subject who got the info from the source,with capes the LENGTH and COLLAR were up to the officer BECAUSE it is an OFF DUTY garmant.. "the standard cape as opposed to the cloak{rain garment} is intended for evening dress.Originally posted by bwanek1 View Post
The cape, with case, cost 24.90 RM It was intended to be worn off-duty only."
First of all what would be the point of shortening it besides for a "look" ?Most importantly of all the CAPE is to be worn OFF DUTY!!!that is in the original SS regulations,although we see them in pics worn on duty too..It is not a "uniform piece",so with an off duty piece i would say its perfectly fine.Do you think mess dress was a uniform?It was worn on occasions not for the front line,dont you think the word "style"comes into play ?Why do you think the evening dress looks so suave?That is the name of teh game for SS.?How many high officers had their own style uniform made for themselves?Regulations certainly could have been bent in this case more than a field uniform which I may add were shortened etc for Ems and not just for size! Ive seen many late officer uniforms cut to look like early M-37's!!Or french cuffs added when they shouldnt be worn.
We may never know but I think the shortening was done period,you can tell by thread and wear.The thread is different but still German thread and its been there.We can agree to disagree,post war or not it is a REAL and beautiful rare item in any state short or long,and I happen to think there is no problem with the length.Im happy with it,very infact,I got it for a super price and thats what counts right?BTW the cape in hand is much longer than it appears in the photos it goes down past my waist.Im 5'10.
Roberts quote says it all,mny items in collections,of all types there are oddities,and yes "broader"than this.
.Its nonsense to think regulations were kept that close,youve been in this hobby awhile Bwanek?How could you possibly say so,with anything in this hobby.I constantly see photos with odd uniforms non regulation on officers and EMs alike,Hitlers adjutant comes to mind with fancy uniforms that were non reg.,he was in Hitlers eye view and he wore what he wanted!you really think it mattered that much to high officers ?Maybe on parade.....In this case the cape was worn off duty for occasions,dinners etc,not standing at attention.I guess Ill have to disagree and not because I own it.I call it how I see it.Last edited by wewelsburg; 03-31-2011, 10:48 PM.Comment
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Dont sweat it my friend you got a nice item for your collection...and you know the old saying about opinions.....anyway anyone with an inquiring mind open to observation and learning would probably know that the early Ss contained many ofiicers under 6' tall including the diminutive Sepp Dietrich himself..their capes would have been quite short to fit properly.Comment
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Thank you John,your opinion means alot!
Anyhow just found out info on the owner,he ended the war as a Standartenfuhrer had teh TK ring and Honor sword.
DRAPE, Rudolf
(1895 - 19)
SS-Standartenführer/Oberst z.V.:
Born: 29.09.1895.
Died:
NSDAP-Nr.: 5 579 380/SS-Nr.: 289 244
Promotions:
SS-Staf.: 1.01.1940;
Assignments:
b. Stab SS-Abs. III: (9.11.1944)
Decorations & Awards:
1914 EK I: ; 1939 Spange zum 1914 EK II: ; 1914 EK II: ; KVK II m. Schw.: ;
Verwundetenabzeichen, 1918 in Silber;
Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer;R Ehrendegen des RF SS/Totenkopfring der SS.
and this:
Rudolf Drape Ministerialrat in Prussian Staatsministerium 1941 1944
Last edited by wewelsburg; 03-31-2011, 11:10 PM.Comment
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It looks like Eicke is wearing spurs -- I sharpened the image and definately no sleeves on this one but some sort of cloak. This one is interesting as it button-down, I don't think those flimsy clasps could have held this cloak together as this was probably for riding.Comment
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There is no such thing as an "off duty" uniform in the sense that you are using it. Formal evening military functions, for which such uniforms were designed, occurred after the end of the "duty day," but they are are still official "duty" occasions. Anyone on this forum who actually served in the military as an officer and had to attend formal evening events will tell you that he did not have the ability of significantly modifying his mess dress to make a fashion statement. When my tailor made my mess dress, he did not ask me whether I wanted anything "special" to stand out from the crowd.Originally posted by wewelsburg View Post
The cuts and design of uniforms change over time and, within reason, the wear of an older style beyond its official wear-out date could be overlooked. Subtle differences in tailoring/cut for personal taste/fit can also be tolerated. This design is neither of those cases, it is a radical departure from the norm.
Of course, for very senior-ranking officers, the rules did not apply. If this item belonged to an eccentric general, I agree that it is possible that he had this originally made to look like it does. I can't rule that out, but I still find it highly unlikely that someone would want a uniform "shawl." To me it looks like it was modified shortly after the war for someone else to use with civilian attire (maybe a woman or a child). That would also explain the removal of the swastika, to not offend the occupation forces.
We can agree to disagree. However, I think you are mistaken that you are not biased in your assessment. If you didn't own this item, you would not be working so hard to convince others (and, perhaps, yourself) that it is unmodified.Originally posted by wewelsburg View PostComment
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junior
In 30 seconds a junior level Seamstress can tell you if that Cape lining has been altered and or shortened.Comment
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