How long should a warranty on a item be ???

[John Macrini]

I Agree with a lot of the post above. You are definitely an honorable person for accepting a return nearly 2 decades after the transaction took place

I guess there are still some good people left in the world.

However since I a relative new TR collector, I'm dying to know what the tunic sold for sooo many years ago. I would not have a clue! I've been collecting mil-surp rifles throughout my entire life (thanks to dad) but have only been collecting TR for close to 5.

John

[Ohlau]

As earlier - simply mistake and error is not fraud. That someone (very first owner of tunic) also could ripped Demil selling it as "original".

Sorry, but I'dont belive in "Liftime guarantee". I don't know in my country and Europe any seller (all kind of item) who can give you "Liftime gurantee", and who will wait for you even after 19 years. Sorry - simply terms of sale and clear time of gurantee - like 14 days, 6 months, 4 years etc. and nothing more. If you don't accept it, you can go for another seller/another shop.

It's only honest intention of Demil. His decision.

50, 70, 100 years, just BSting, if you sell a fake you must give the money back, stop, no excuses allowed here.

"Adidas" tried to tell it Chinese....

[PBR]

Sorry - simply terms of sale and clear time of gurantee - like 14 days, 6 months, 4 years etc. and nothing more. If you don't accept it, you can go for another seller/another shop.

You cannot apply guarantee terms to a fake item, if sold as original.
You can only apply them for an item sold and bought as descripted, in this case, an original.

[LRRPS]

You cannot apply guarantee terms to a fake item, if sold as original.
You can only apply them for an item sold and bought as descripted, in this case, an original.

In Derek's case, this is regulated by Norwegian law. I'll assume it was a business - consumer transaction. If Derek was in good faith when he sold the item, it will not be classified as a fraud. The "guarantee" periode will in this case be 5 years.

Norwegian law also gives the buyer a responsibility to verify what he is buying.
It is not only up to the seller. Lifetime guarantees would not hold up in a norwegian court.

[sjl]

This is starting to sound like my first year commercial law class...

LRRPS is right. In Canada the rule is 2 years. In the US (although I'm not a US attorney), have a look at the UCC - Uniform Commercial Code. See here.

In the US, here are what I see as the important sections under the general rule (modified slightly from state to state) in the UCC:

****

Uniform Commercial Code-Sales

§ 2-313. Express Warranties by Affirmation, Promise, Description, Sample.
(1) In this section, "immediate buyer" means a buyer that enters into a contract with the seller.
(2) Express warranties by the seller to the immediate buyer are created as follows:
(a) Any affirmation of fact or promise made by the seller which relates to the goods and becomes part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the affirmation or promise.
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description.

***

§ 2-316. Exclusion or Modification of Warranties.

(b) if the buyer before entering into the contract has examined the goods or the sample or model as fully as desired or has refused to examine the goods after a demand by the seller there is no implied warranty with regard to defects that an examination in the circumstances should have revealed to the buyer; and

***

§ 2-725. Statute of Limitations in Contracts for Sale.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, an action for breach of any contract for sale must be commenced within the later of four years after the right of action has accrued under subsection (2) or (3) or one year after the breach was or should have been discovered, but no longer than five years after the right of action accrued. By the original agreement the parties may reduce the period of limitation to not less than one year but may not extend it. However, in a consumer contract, the period of limitation may not be reduced.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), the following rules apply:
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, a right of action for breach of a contract accrues when the breach occurs, even if the aggrieved party did not have knowledge of the breach.

Note that under the US UCC (section § 2-725) the warranty period may not be extended by agreement past 5 years - so much for "lifetime guarantees".

The law constantly deals with "thin lines". "Honest mistake" defences vs fraud are determined daily in the courts based on the facts of each case. We've done that here already by looking at it and agreeing that Demil was acting honestly 19 years ago. How hard was that? Other dealers might (and do) have harder cases to make for similar "mistakes". The law does not demand perfection and not every mistake is entitled to redress. Anyone looking for that shouldn't be a lawyer, judge or collector of SS relics.

And if you don't like the law, you can always run for Congress...

[DeMil]

Update 2th Jaunuary.

I have been in contact with the guy I sold the uniform to back in 1991/92.
I have offered him the same amount I sold it for + a compensation of around 50 % more. I will get the jacket back and he will get the money.
He is not interested in my proposal. He wants another SS jacket with all original insignias.

Derek

[PBR]

And if you don't like the law, you can always run for Congress...

You are a funny man.

If you sell a fake and then you refuse to refund the money, it's your choice, but don't feel sad if people gonna start to call you names such as "crook" or "thief".
It's just a matter of personal choice, you can be a Gentleman or a scumbag, seems to me you choose the 2nd one, but after all "it's a free country", innit?

[PBR]

Update 2th Jaunuary.

I have been in contact with the guy I sold the uniform to back in 1991/92.
I have offered him the same amount I sold it for + a compensation of around 50 % more. I will get the jacket back and he will get the money.
He is not interested in my proposal. He wants another SS jacket with all original insignias.

Derek

This is another story IMPO.
You should offer him the very same amount he paid 19 years ago, if he refuses, then he can keep the tunic and that's it.
Gentleman but not stupid.

[Ohlau]

smart guy observe WAF and probably
wants your Fehlers tunic...for free - don´t be stupid.

[jotuntroll]

Hi

Your a gentleman if you pay him the amount from back then and supernice if you pay him more. He has no right demanding another SS tunic. it`s much worse to get one now than two decades ago.
Be super nice not stupid.

[militaria.no]

Update 2th Jaunuary.

I have been in contact with the guy I sold the uniform to back in 1991/92.
I have offered him the same amount I sold it for + a compensation of around 50 % more. I will get the jacket back and he will get the money.
He is not interested in my proposal. He wants another SS jacket with all original insignias.

Derek

The exact SS jacket he bought 19 years ago unfortunately turned out to have fake insignias. Now he suddenly wants ANOTHER SS jacket after being offered a refund!?!? Who is this cry-baby I wonder Please promise me not to give him one of your own SS jackets – as this is NOT what he paid for 19 years ago

Most of us collectors have bought fake items without getting anything back than tough learned lessons. You have been very kind and honourable to offer him a refund. Now I think he is pushing his own luck.

[Bob Hritz]

It seems that many here are descended from the family name: Whiner. Please do not do business with me or bother me with requests to buy.

Bob Hritz

[sjl]

Did our esteemed friend "TK" just call me a scumbag because I tried to provide a thoughtful legal analysis of a complex problem? Very classy and gentlemanly, I must say. Perhaps our moderators may have something to say about that.

As for the issue at hand, you see - this is why we have laws and limitations. To protect buyers and sellers from unreasonable expectations. DeMil does the right thing well above any legal obligation, and has it thrown back at him.

There is no obligation to refund more than purchase price or replace a unique item with another item, or indeed, any refund at all at this point except out of the goodness of his heart.

Moral - be careful when you sell or buy, check, double then triple check during a reasonable examination period, know you only have a couple of years at the outside to complain or return, and then suck it up and be a man if both of you were honestly mistaken and enough time has passed since the purchase to get married, have kids and send them to college.

[me6_130]

Update 2th Jaunuary.

I have been in contact with the guy I sold the uniform to back in 1991/92.
I have offered him the same amount I sold it for + a compensation of around 50 % more. I will get the jacket back and he will get the money.
He is not interested in my proposal. He wants another SS jacket with all original insignias.

Derek

You offerd him a 50% more . I had suggested you refunded, but paying more 19 years later, I think it's too much to be a gentleman. If he doesn't take it, up to him! You've done more than expected. Tell him your offer is only valid till ends of month or you might have him banging at your door in 5 years time! Forget about any other solutions, or perhaps just offer him some original insignia to sew to the tunic

Carles

[JoeW]

Did our esteemed friend "TK" just call me a scumbag because I tried to provide a thoughtful legal analysis of a complex problem? Very classy and gentlemanly, I must say. Perhaps our moderators may have something to say about that.

No Stephen, I think he thought you were funny in the first sentence. Then in the next paragraph he made a generic comment about what sellers that he believes might have sold a fake should be called. Nor do I believe he has considered intent. I don't believe he understood that you were simply stating the law as stated in the UCC.