How long should a warranty on a item be ???

[Ohlau]

California did let O.J. go after he murdered two people.

As I remember from TV, mister O.J had "dream team of lawyers" in court.....

[John Pen.]

There is proof by his own admission on the forum.

Dennis S,
Please explain. I am very curious what you meant here. ....just an immediate Interpretation .
Jp
Never mind, I think I get it; The seller has admitted that it is the same insignia?

Cheers, Happy New Year to all!!! see you next year, unless some of you are in Asia, because it is already next year for you!

[GOTZVONB]

Warranty on an item???

In the many years that I've collected WWII German militaria, I've bought a fair amount of items that turned out to be questionable, or in other words, fake!!! I have returned items to dealers & collectors that I thought were bad, and it wasn't always easy to get a refund. Some guys would be very defensive about their questionable item, and respond to my refund request in a rude manner, which never deterred me from getting a refund. Some guys would admit that they didn't know it was a fake & give me a refund, and other guys just gave me a refund with no questions asked. I never returned an item that I had kept for over a few months, and that would be an extreme case, but 19 years is a bit much. IMO, even if you're legally within your rights to return an item after such a long length of time, it's seems very, very weird to me. Very interesting thread for the end of the year.

Happy New Year

Tom

[Turi]

As a lawyer practicing in California, I do not know what the law is in Norway on the subject. I can only say that in the US, when the contract is based on the originality of the item in question, the statute of limitations begins to run not from the time of sale, but from the time of discovery that the item is not original. In other words, the buyer even after 19 years, if he discovers that the insignia is bad, would have the right to sue for breach of contract and rescission of that contract, and a refund of his money, based on the misrepresentation of originality, whether intentional or negligent. Whether he prevails is up to the judge or jury, which could certainly consider such a delay in rendering a verdict.
Sorry Bob, the sale is not always "final".
Gary.

Great...I would like to entitle this thread to Mr Freddy Mercury...Another one bit the dust...Sorry Bob, i am drunk Molotov Vodka

HAPPY NEW COLLECTING YEARS!!!

kind regards,
Salvatore

[Bernie Brule]

I would say no but having said that, I had a guy come back to me 3 years after I sold him an SS officer's bullion sleeve eagle saying it was a repro. Before selling it, I had people I trust to include Bob Hritz and Tony Barto check it out at a MAX show. Knowing that it was real and prices had tripled, I gladly gave him his money back and promptly sold it for 3 times as much.

So check out the prices for that tunic and then decide. But IMO you have no obligation whatsoever.

[wewelsburg]

Take it back and make a profit!!!

[Dennis S]

Hi all.

For exactly 19 years ago I sold a SS tunic to a collector.
I sold it then as original but now the buyer has found out that the insignia on the tunic are copies.

So my question is - for how long time should I as a seller give warranty on an item ?

Regards

Derek

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL COLLECTORS

John Pen see above for any questions reference evidence. 19 years is a bit much though, if not I have a lot of money coming to me.

[TonyS]

John Pen see above for any questions reference evidence. 19 years is a bit much though, if not I have a lot of money coming to me.

go for it Dennis - get those refunds.

But I agree, 19 years is a crazy time period to press a refund claim.

[BenVK]

This confusion always arises and dealers only have themselves to blame really.

Most state on their websites that all items are guaranteed to original. That's fine but for how long? 7 days? 6 months, 10 years?

Why not just state clearly that buyers have 14 days to inspect an item and after that period, all sales are final. Or, 7 days to inspect with a 3 month unconditional guarantee. These are just examples, it could be anything that the seller feels comfortable offering.

The point is, just make it clear and in black and white and then no one can have any grounds for missunderstanding. It's not rocket science.

In terms of private sales where terms and conditions are not written down, I tend to abid by the UK guidelines regarding consumer protection. That is, you have a 14 day period to change your mind, after that, the sale is final.

[Ian Hulley]

ok, common sense time .... as a 'gesture of goodwill' take it back, make sure everyone knows about it, full refund, no questions asked. Strip repro insignia and offer for sale at current going rate. Result is no great (if any) loss of cash but good PR business-wise.

Make sure you never sell to this person again, make sure anything you sell has a clearly defined returns period and stick to that.

Let's be honest I'm sure many people have sold items that we've since found out were fake .. I know I have ... my consolation is that the people who bought the items from me obviously thought they were ripping me off The difference now is that the knowledge is much more readily available and there can be little excuse for this nowadays.

Ian.

[me6_130]

Well, we all look for good prices and for sure we have bought good items at a very low price, sometimes thinking the seller didn't know what he was selling. Have we gone back to tell him it was a good item and the price should have been higher? In some occasions those items weren't good or just a fake, I can assure you I haven't gone back to seller to tell him so, even I imagined he knew they were not good, unless you were in a reasonable inspection period time. You just keep them and try to recover part of your money sellling as a repro. That could be done when there weren't so many repros around and they could sell at a nice price.

In this case we are talking about a good SS tunic with repro insignia. As said previously, I would get it back and refund, remake the tunic and sell it as what it is, stating a reasonable inspection time.

In Spain 20 years is the limit to denounce a 'crime', after that there is nothing to do. I imagine we can consider it an inspection time limit.

Carles

[realone]

Hey , I bought 4 belt buckels about 11 years ago, from a guy in the mid west,,his name was even in Angolias book as having original SS buckles,,so at that time not many books or info on how to tell real from fake, so last year I decided to put up the buckels for review and found out 3 of the 4 were fakes,,I mean once I learned they were ,I contacted the guy whom sold them to me.
He did refund my money and I thought that was the right thing to do,,since he is still dealing in militaria. I do think once sold as original the buyer now has more info to do his homework before he makes his purchase, so the buyer does have some responsiblilty before hand. But some dealers do offer a lifetime on originality, meaning there lifetime, or if they get out of the business. Either way theres a certain amount of risk on both parties.

Just my thoughts

Greg

[militaria.no]

ok, common sense time .... as a 'gesture of goodwill' take it back, make sure everyone knows about it, full refund, no questions asked. Strip repro insignia and offer for sale at current going rate. Result is no great (if any) loss of cash but good PR business-wise.

Make sure you never sell to this person again, make sure anything you sell has a clearly defined returns period and stick to that.
Ian.

This sounds like a very reasonable win-win suggestion

[sjl]

As of January 1, 2004, the limitation period in Ontario, Canada, for breach of contract changed from six years to two years. The new limitation period begins to run on the day on which the claim was discovered. In effect, the law deems a person to have discovered a claim on the day on which a reasonable person first ought to have known of the claim.

So, how long should someone have something in their collection before it's reasonable to discover it is a fake? I suppose it depends on the item and how good a fake it is. The standard is a reasonable person - not a gullible or clueless buyer. There's a good argument that a "reasonable person" will take more care in buying high-end stuff, and get opinions about it.

We all like to get lifetime guarantees, and some dealers voluntarily offer them, but the law does not like enforcing over-long commercial relationships as it is a recipe for trouble and litigation. You can't run your life or business being responsible for everything forever. There has to be certainty and an end. That's why we have limitation periods for everything except fraud. In the art world, returns of forgeries are tricky, and absent fraud usually hinge on a settlement to keep a dealer's good name intact - more a custom than the law.

As a lawyer myself, the analysis comes down to when the risk of an item being genuine should pass from the seller to the buyer. Absent knowingly selling a bad item (which would be fraud and doesn't have a limitation), a reasonable inspection period is when the risk stays with the seller and an item can be returned. After acceptance, and after a short period thereafter (2 years in Ontario) the risk then passes to the buyer.

I think 19 years is pushing the envelope legally, to say the least.

[Lassi]

I think for at least 4 generations would be suitable

No 19 years Derek it is ridiculous and IMO your offer to return the tunic at the price sold for then is more than generous of you

Regards
Lars