Rare SSVT tunic illusion...or

[PMan]

To the Older Collectors,

I was told that back in the early 1970's that SS cuff bands and some of the rarer SS collar tabs were in such high demand, that guys were stripping original "untouched" tunics just to sell off the insignias. Is this just a myth or is there any truth to this ? Just curious.

YES. It was thought that more money could be made from selling individual insignias. Selling the tunic with everything wrapped together usually meant a discount for the complete package.
Peter

[John Pic]

I have heard this before but have not ever witnessed anything like that happening.

Grant you state exactly what I am thinking about..when these collections surface and they will someday people will have to know where they came from and it will also depend on the dealer or collector offering them. Some of the dealers have built themselves a very bad reputation by overzealous selling of parts tunics...I for one no longer trust them whatsoever..and even when they get one that looks right I avoid them. I would never hesitate to buy from some others even though they have made mistakes and I keep a list of those in my mind and you know what..since Ive been on forums for the last 10 years only one or two SS officer tunics or rare varient SS tunics have appeared on the sites of those people...as opposed to the almost monthly aquiring of SS officer or rare varient items by the dealers I tend to avoid.

So whats the answer do you bite the bullet and say oh well about all the guys who get taken for thousands...in the old days it wasnt that much money being lost so it was easy to say...well man guess you learned a lesson eating that one...now its involving life savings investments and scrutiny is important.

So yes Im sure people will regard every SS uniform with scrutiny..I had a look at one from a well known SS collector in the U.S. and it had no proof but it was right enough for me and could not have been anything but an SS tunic..you judge each piece hands on as best you can. But these well assembled put togethers will also circulate and no one will know the difference its a sad truth.

[Thälmannpionier]

informative and alarming Thread..

and i cant resist to echo a comment made here some posts earlier..

"It takes years to build trust but seconds to loose".

[teutonen(Jeff)]

After 17 pages on this thread, it comes down to to one fact:

A tunic was changed, then mis-represented by the seller, who is out to maximize his profits. Add his name to the list of whom to be careful with.

Thanks to the originator of this thread for enlightening us. Good info, that will help us in the future.

I think this was the main point, being made.

Remember, we are supposed to be on the same team here - educate, learn and hopefully, share your knowledge as appropriate. That's why most of joined the WAF.

This constant bickering gets old.

On a positive note, I would like to thank those who have helped out in the past with their knowledge in their respective fields. I look forward to learning more.

[WalterB]

I have just received an email from Helmut and he asked if I could post it here on the forum.


Dar Graham,

Today I just got a phone call regarding your old SD tunic and the talk about it
on the forum. I just wanted to give you a briefing about it.

This tunic has been changed into a SS-VT tunic on the wish of a customer, who has purchased all the fitting insignia from us . The photos were made for the customer to show him, how the tunic looked like, after the restauration. During that time I was on the Militaria Show in Milan. Unfortunately the photographer released the photos for our update, no knowing, that the tunic was sold already.
I actually didn´t control the 850 pieces , which appeared in our weekly update,
while I was in Italy. I am sorry for the irritation, it was not my intention to
offer this tunic on our site as original. The price of EUR 9000,-- was the price
for the customer: a addition of tunic and insignia. As we both know, an original
untouched tunic would be much much more expensive. By the way: the SD insignia, which were on the tunic, when I purchased it from you, didn´t belong to the tunic either. We still have the SD raute from you, which we will mail over still today.

It would be nice, if you could post my comment on the forum.

Best regards from Hamburg,


Helmut Weitze
Neuer Wall 18, 2. St.
20354 Hamburg
Germany

phone Germany / 40 / 35 27 61
fax Germany / 40 / 35 35 63

What a pathetic explanation. Only a moron would think that this is believable.

[Beobachter]

Good observation ....

I find it very curious that the wss offz disappeared !

The 22K SS uniform that was supposed to be auctioned at EMA has been recalled. Perhaps back to Hamburg??????? What is going on?

[jotuntroll]

Hi John Pic

Thanks for observing and sharing. This is a very importent tread for all collectors.
It`s very sad when a big dealer name in the industry dissappoint us with severe speculations in fraud. I don`t buy his coverup story.
Yes, he has nice things also, and this raise moral issues to many of us.
The apologists have already chimed in, and some will nevertheless go over corpses if it benefit themself.

What amazes me is that there is almost no tunics SS, WH etc.for sale with insignia missing.
Most SS men partly or total removed their insignia in captivity. Some in fright of random execution, some taking their own insignia for keeping and a lot removed by the enemy.
Unmessed tunics survived offcoarse, but I believe most where messed with removed in captivity.
Many of the officer tunics survived unmessed where extra/on leave tunics while the soldiers mostly had what they wore.
To sum it up, I believe it is just the tip of the iceberg. Why do we collectors (almost) get partly or total removed insignia on out of the wood tunics while dealers always have unmessed by the numbers?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Pause

Yes, it gives one pause. Makes you want to nibble on your inner lower lip with skepticism.......

[John Pic]

Right..whatever you do dont take this thread too seriously...after all we need someone to go out an buy those slap togethers so the dealers will stay appeased and content and keep offering good stuff to those who are smarter about what they buy.

[John Pen.]

Good work John Pic, good work!!!
That eagle eye of yours spotted a shinnanigan in full swing.
I'd say this fellow was caught with his tunic around his ankles.....
unless of course, it was an unfortunate underlings fault.
Kudos to you, and thanks,
Jp

[bnz. 42]

That was the sickest thread ever on this forum, which perfectly shows how really sick some people can be in this "collecting world" Congratulations!

[John Pic]

Romper room back is session?

[Robert H]

Once some 2 years ago one nice SS Off. tunic surfaced in Germany. Got all info on it but I missed to get it. Anyhow some weeks later I could not believe it, I saw the tunic as all surroundings matched up to it. Only one difference one original rune tab was replaced for one skull tab to add more value to it (from one untouched SS Off. tunic). This is just another indication for money addicted stupidity.

[John Pic]

Euro 7,000 is allot of money

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=474030

Robert no doubt that occurs and will continue. Look at this officer tunics shoulder boards and rank tabs..a dealer sent me this picture to offer me a chance to buy it. Allot of people on the forums have bought SS uniforms from him to including myself.

[John Pic]

After I brought it up to the dealer who offered it to me he fixed the problem for me...although I didn't want it after that. This was not from Weitze or Winkler either but another European dealer. .....and the price was not discounted after the goof...it was still way more than the tunic was worth including the insignias...Sieder eagle and all.