Rare SSVT tunic illusion...or

[John Pic]

The intent of a thread like this is to demonstrate to many not all ,but a big majority that there is no need to speculate the putting together of tunics occurs and by some big dealers.

I agree with John that many have the right intentions,but in this case the intent wasn't good or right,some eager collector hungry for that first high end rarity would buy something like this and post it for opinions getting a mix of oohs awes and thumb downs.....but when someone like me would try and mention that the dealer involved is known to do this we would get spanked by a moderator for "hearsay" and asked to not discuss the dealer but the item. Well this time the dealer got caught with a hand in the cookie jar so to speak. Its important because aside from a handfull of very serious SS collectors who have been at it for years there is a huge population of wanna be SS collectors waiting for a chance...this was for them not those who are within the club already. It was a very disappointed collector who made me aware of the incident as do many in private PMs and emails guys who save for years just to afford one thing and end up with something like this because of Dealer certifications and guarantees that are worthless.Caveat Emptor.

It cant be policed but awareness of what youre buying and learning are the best tools.

[Madhessian]

well said JOHN, and great work!

thanks Joe Semen

[Max Wünsche]

I want to hear Weitze's response to the collecting community backlash...

I only just recently purchased a Kriegsmarine tunic (Collani) and Cap from him....but with definitely think twice about going back.

That petition thing is a good idea, to make an example of a big dealer being caught out wont stop this sort of thing happening. However it will be a significant warning to others that if they attempt this sort of thing and are caught out that the community with make sure everyone knows and their business will suffer bacause of it...

It may make them think twice is all.

Then again it was by pure chance that this one was picked up was it not?

[Glenn McInnes]

However it will be a significant warning to others that if they attempt this sort of thing and are caught out that the community with make sure everyone knows and their business will suffer bacause of it...

For me it is a double edged sword....Great they are outed and the collecting community warned....But on the other hand bad,as they will be all the more careful the next time around.

Most collectors who have been at this a while already know what is going on,and who does what with uniforms.











Glenn

[Max Wünsche]

Then what hope does someone like me have even if I post it of here for appraisal b4 purchase...?

Other than the tear below the arm eagle on that VT-tunic how would anyone have known the difference...? other than say the previous owner that could match up blemish for blemish knowing that tunic inside out.

I thought it was across the board that all dealers at some time or other, either knowingly or not (then again who can tell) has sold or had a dodgy item for sale...

One comment i have heard alot "I will buy from so-and-so reputable dealer and am prepared to pay more for piece of mind"............

Well that now goes out the window, if everyone is doing it.

For me it is a double edged sword....Great they are outed and the collecting community warned....But on the other hand bad,as they will be all the more careful the next time around.

Most collectors who have been at this a while already know what is going on,and who does what with uniforms.











Glenn

[Scott A. Hess]

Then what hope does someone like me have even if I post it of here for appraisal b4 purchase...?

Other than the tear below the arm eagle on that VT-tunic how would anyone have known the difference...? other than say the previous owner that could match up blemish for blemish knowing that tunic inside out.

I thought it was across the board that all dealers at some time or other, either knowingly or not (then again who can tell) has sold or had a dodgy item for sale...

One comment i have heard alot "I will buy from so-and-so reputable dealer and am prepared to pay more for piece of mind"............

Well that now goes out the window, if everyone is doing it.

I can't honestly say there is such a thing as piece of mind with anyone, and peace of mind to me comes from knowing what you are buying. Many dealers are knowledgable, but it ultimately comes down to the honesty of the dealer (or collector) and their own integrity. You can know everything potentially, but if you lack fundamental core values of honesty and integrity, then you still will be burned by a very knowledable thief, you may just sleep better for a while, until someone with greater knowledge helps educate you as to the difference between good vs. bad. Luckily, there are many many helpful people on this forum, John being one of them, who take an interest in helping others learn.

[KM-NZ]

mate, learn, observe, get burned, and learn again, the only way, others can form opinions for you, but the more you know yourself and can compare, the better....

[Joe D]

I just came across this thread and all I can say is wow! I have done business with him in the past but I will definitely take him off my list with this kind of blatant fraud. Everybody should boycott this site in order to send a message.

[WEISNER]

I would guess that his latest update has had rather poor sales reflecting this exposure! for sure there were the sales of items collectors just can't pass up, but the overall sales were off!
This exposed tunic and the backlash of his pitiful response is all over the net, from corner to corner of the collector forum community!
I wonder if he feels a pinch, temporaraly as it may be?
Best Regards!
Kevin

[John Pic]

Are you kidding hobbyists in general could care less about ethical behavior as long as they can get their fix....kinda like babyboomers and social security they hate it, except when its thier time to collect it.

[inimicus]

yes good on ya, 'watchdog' john! and thanks; your work is much appreciated.

Well spotted John, interesting!

[chrischa]

Are you kidding hobbyists in general could care less about ethical behavior as long as they can get their fix....kinda like babyboomers and social security they hate it, except when its thier time to collect it.

Hello.

I think it's back to the old arguement, describe it as recently assembled and sell it as such. If collectors can't stand the idea of a post war assembled tunic, then don't hold your breath for one untouched.

I still don't think the tunic was original when first seen on collectors sites long before Weitze. If he didn't, why not strip and start again as long as it's described as such? He may have returned it closer to origionality (sp).

BTW, the correct term is 'couldn't care less'.

Regards,
Chris.

[John Pic]

My gratitude for the English lesson...who cares..save thou, tis common knowledge that languages evolve just as all else does, perhaps I am a pioneer? It was put together before Weitze and also by Weitze and the tunic itself was never an SS tunic its not even SS cut so it is in no way restored to what it might have been.

Also thine opine re advertisement of the wretched garment doth ring true to mine own hearts place on this matter..it should have been advertised as a put together thing. Speaking of the English language is "Funnily" a word ?

[chrischa]

Hello Jon.

You searched my posts, bless you.

We English need to hold on to something, don't ruin it!

Don't take it personally, I like what you write.

My point about the tunic is anyone waiting for an untouched W-SS tunic, don't hold your breath. I bought a W-SS tunic from Weitze after seeking private advice from good people here. I can still never be sure after spending a large sum of money. I can live with that.

But, if it was reassembled, I should have paid the relevant price.

I do believe if a tunic can ever have absolute certainty that it is untouched, it would be double the prices out there now.

Who will be caught next time for adding an extra award loop, Bill Shea (Oh my God no).

Regards,
Chris.

My gratitude for the English lesson...who cares..save thou, tis common knowledge that languages evolve just as all else does, perhaps I am a pioneer? It was put together before Weitze and also by Weitze and the tunic itself was never an SS tunic its not even SS cut so it is in no way restored to what it might have been.

Also thine opine re advertisement of the wretched garment doth ring true to mine own hearts place on this matter..it should have been advertised as a put together thing. Speaking of the English language is "Funnily" a word ?

[John Pic]

Which tunic did you purchase?He has sold some that I felt were not messed around with. Although about 7-8 years ago he was selling allot of tunics with the Sieder arm eagles and other fake parts. What tends to happen is people post something from a well liked dealer and it gets "Officially" blessed by other collectors on forums not because its good but because everyone loves the dealer...I look at the overall piece and try to be objective.


On a side note I wonder where all the Sieder Eagle tunics are now? They would make nice fillers if sold for what they are.

I only speak Southern Californian with a hint of South Dartmouth Mass. in there.