The mk casket club

[ejwahl1]

the casket i owned was brought back by a capt Hickman , when he passed away approx 15 years ago an auction was held at his estate appleton manor ,it was described on the auction catalogue as an ss officers ashes casket,capt hickman was a vet of ww2,he later became director of hickmans steelworks the largest steelworks apparently in the uk, so theres one that wasnt from a dealer. rgds Dave

Interesting description: "ss officers ashes casket". The dimensions, shape and volume of the box would certainly be more than adequate to serve as an "urn" for cremated human remains. Whether or not these caskets are original to the period is something else ~ and will obviously continue to be discussed and debated until some form of unquestionable evidence is found.

Regards,

Ed

[Robin Lumsden]

Interesting description: "ss officers ashes casket".

Yes..............especially as there's no secure lid to the thing.

One bump and the ashes would be all over the carpet.

I don't think so!

[der-hase-fee]

I cannot believe the way this thread is going!

As of lately, all the threads on the SS casket take this turn ... Someone trying to lobby ?

[Capt. R]

Who's got pics of fake boxes to post....it has been said that they are out there - let's see some to compare against an original.

[Capt. R]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. R
Had you ever heard of a practice where Himmler's closest "Knights" may have been awarded these SS caskets as a token of their special belonging to the Wewelsburg circle of Knights. Therefore, they were a one-time only "issue?"
No one else receiving them except the inner circle, if you will.

What is the basis of your stern disagreement, Robin, other than I am merely speculating?

[Michael Fay]

Yes..............especially as there's no secure lid to the thing.

One bump and the ashes would be all over the carpet.

I don't think so!

For those who dont get what Robin is saying, These box's lids are very insecure, and they will fall off very easily. I have to be very careful when taking them out of storage. It is actually safer to just take off the lid before trying to move it.

I know very well as I have 2 of these boxes now.

Now, as I was the first one long ago to ask about the ashes angle here on WAF in the SS forum, I will say that I dont know any better than any one else, and personally speculate that perhaps in different areas things happened differently, or after war, these items may have been used in ways not originally meant.

By the way,
There are about 3 in-depth old threads on these boxes. So, before asking the same questions over and over, please utilize the search function on WAF and go over all the old questions and answers.

Finally, as far as I am concerned these boxes were a reality.

[Michael Fay]

Why in UK: my personal thoughts

As of lately, all the threads on the SS casket take this turn ... Someone trying to lobby ?

I used to talk to an older SS collector who lived in UK in his early collecting days.
When he saw my SS MK box, it brought back old memories from the shows he attended in the late 60's.
He said there were always a few of these SS Mk Boxes at the shows.

So, here are some of my personal speculations:

I have always speculated that perhaps it was in a British controlled zone in Germany that a collection of these boxes had been gathered prior to Kapitulation.

Or that it was a quirk in the British character that found these boxes more interesting to collect during the occupation, wheras perhaps Americans found them less interesting than all the other SS regalia . No matter what, I am sure the average American GI had less comprehension as to SS Kulture than the average UK Soldiers, as the religious or pagan aspects of the nazis appears to have been downplayed early on in American propaganda.But, I have found a few old British published books from war years that talk about the "pagan" aspects of the Nazis, indeed, perhaps they over-emphasized it and embellished a bit all for propaganda's sake, of course.

[PBR]

Yes..............especially as there's no secure lid to the thing.

One bump and the ashes would be all over the carpet.

I don't think so!

IMHO no need to secure it if these boxes supposed to be buried with the ashes in, maybe SS paganesim was against the burial of a whole high ranking SS body (see somebody very close to Himmler or Wewelsburg), maybe these boxes were buried with a specific ribbon to secure them.
I'm just speculating.

They seems period to me, I remember well the one published on his books by Robin almost 20 years ago and it always gave me a good feeling.
Maybe they were produced for veterans just after the war?
Who knows.
Sure, back in the years they were very very rare to see around, so more than 20 around now is something suspicious let me say.

Good thread.

[Arran]

These boxes are in the traditional form of a book box, whereas ashes are traditionally kept in an urn of some sort, so it makes no sense that these would be for ashes...

[Robin Lumsden]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. R
Had you ever heard of a practice where Himmler's closest "Knights" may have been awarded these SS caskets as a token of their special belonging to the Wewelsburg circle of Knights. Therefore, they were a one-time only "issue?"
No one else receiving them except the inner circle, if you will.




What is the basis of your stern disagreement, Robin, other than I am merely speculating?

There was no 'Circle of Knights!'

[PBR]

OK Ruhl 13

Here is one of my old wood boxes.
This one has been seen before, but it is worthy.
This thread will give expelled member"MM" apoplexy when he looks in.

You don't put a death date on a book box, IMHO..

[Robin Lumsden]

...............so more than 20 around now is something suspicious let me say.

I disagree.

When I started collecting, original Knight's Crosses were hardly ever seen on the market.

Now they are all over the place.

Same with Oaks, Swords, (original) TK rings, Germanic Proficiency Runes, etc.

Rare items appear as vets and their descendants die off.

[Capt. R]

There was no 'Circle of Knights!'

How are you so sure?

[der-hase-fee]

I have always speculated that perhaps it was in a British controlled zone in Germany that a collection of these boxes had been gathered prior to Kapitulation.

Not sure about the collection aspect. But would be a match for mine, which originated from Gau Osthannover.

[Thorsten B.]

Robin,

It is true that rare items do appear when people who kept them die.

But it is also true that fakes of rare items do appear when high prices are asked AND paid for these - getting along with better and better abilities to produce such fakes.

In other words: what was the price for a Ritterkreuz when you started collecting and how many collectors were really willing to pay the asked price?

And how did the collector market developed within these years - have in mind that in comparison to then-and-now younger generations of collectors are often set in the possibility to spend a lot more money in their hobby since they earn more than the situation was about 30 years ago.

Furthermore within this development especially within the 80ties and early 90ties a whole generation of dealers established and a lot more items did - and do - surface because much more pairs of eyes are searching for it.

Compare your argument with WWI items: they are much more rare in general because when the generation who kept these items died not many people searched, collected and paid for them yet - so really many pieces landed just in the trashcans - no matter how rare they were!