Original SS Mein kampf wedding casket ???

[Michael Fay]

MK boxes were in Britain in the 1960's

I agree.



Know ? Of course not. But assuming the MK's that came with the cases were not put into them based on a wicked scheme, it would appear that most are tied to Northern Germany / British occupation zone (locations of the towns mentioned on the dedication pages in the books). That could explain why many appeared in UK.

That is very interesting.
I always wondered why the so called SS MK boxes were found at UK militaria shows back in the 1960's.
An old Englishman told me he used to see them all the time at the 1960's shows.

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

unexpected but still so nice to see you suddenly chiming in here.

Actually you are wrong:

The chest I showed to you is not the one with the battle scene and the national emblem on top - nonetheless it is a good idea to get at least one of them checked by the institute I mentioned.

The beautiful and extremely well executed ANRI chest to which you are obviously refering to is already at Hermann Historica´s office in Munich so it is impossible to let that one checked - I handed it over to Mr. Faust from Hermann Historica at the Waffenbörse in Kassel and what can I say?

He was so overwhelmed about the extraordinary quality of the ANRI piece - and authenticity, of course - that he immediately asked for permission to put it in their premium auction in autumn time.
Furthermore he stated that he had never ever seen in his whole career at Hermann´s such a beautiful piece of art manufactured in wood.


Well, maybe you should write a letter to Hermann Historica addressing your concerns to them and publish it and their possible answer and reaction here as well.

That would perhaps help all of us to finally get the board cleaned from the vast mass of these "MK boxes", you know?

You mean you tell everyone else (like Der Hase Fee and Don) to have their wooden boxes tested, but you will not do it your self?
Perhaps you need to send your concerns of wood testing to Historica, not I. After all they are your concerns. Not mine.

So much for you walking the walk, all you do is talk the talk.

P.S. Actually it is exactly the same box. Battle scene is on the side, of course-as you know. No need for hocus pocus! I could post your originally forwarded photo if you ask me to nicely.

[Thorsten B.]

Michael,

As already mentioned I have no "SS MK" box so I cannot send one in.

Walking the walk is up to the owners of these boxes.

Regarding the ANRI chest: again you are wrong.

Battle scene is on the front - not on the side.

The possible new owner can send it in and let it check for sure - so that he knows he purchased indeed an ABSOLUTELY AUTHENTIC PIECE FROM THE PERIOD.

When will I see you writing a happy comment again, Michael?! ;-)

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

As already mentioned I have no "SS MK" box so I cannot send one in.

Walking the walk is up to the owners of these boxes.

Regarding the ANRI chest: again you are wrong.

Battle scene is on the front - not on the side.

The possible new owner can send it in and let it check for sure - so that he knows he purchased indeed an ABSOLUTELY AUTHENTIC PIECE FROM THE PERIOD.

When will I see you writing a happy comment again, Michael?! ;-)

Again,
why would you tell others they need to have wood boxes checked, but you wont have your own wood boxes checked? (any wood item) As you know I wrote Truhe for your box and never called yours an SS box . That so called "ANRI" box is not SS at all. But it is indeed wood.
I am surprised you have not used the wood authenticity test on your own items.
Dont you believe in the test?

Thorsten, we are talking about the same box, ask me nicely to show it .

Now again,
you tell others to have wood items checked for authenticity at that site you have supplied.
I await you having your own wood items authenticated by this site you like so much.

And show us how it works...and show us the documentation.
If it looks like it works, then maybe it will be a good thing for the hobby.

[maestro]

....to figure out the age of tapestry, so you know the full story behind it....

....Matthäus, here are some basic pointers!

1
Examine the tapestry for a manufacturer's tag. If the tapestry has a tag sticking out of it, then it represents modern manufacture and it might be no more than 30 or 40 years old.

2
Determine what fabric the tapestry is made. Old tapestries were made of wool, linen, cotton or a combination of these fabrics. If your tapestry has artificial fabrics, like nylon or polyester, then it's most likely no older than 70 years. Traditional tapestries were made of the materials available in the Middle Ages.

3
Look at the tapesty itself. What does the tapestry depict? Often times, tapestries were dedicated to certain battles or events. Others, like the famous unicorn hunt tapestries, were meant to show mythology. If the tapestry is dedicated to a battle that happened in 1260, for instance, you know the tapestry can't be older than that year. Also, the art style of the tapestry can date it. For instance, the traditional medieval art style of blocky depictions from front or side view is a period tapestry. If the tapestry uses more modern art style or techniques that were not common at the time, such as a 3/4 view or creating depth with shadow, then it's likely not very old at all.

4
Have the tapestry tested by an expert. If you must have an exact time of your tapestry's manufacture, history experts can verify the era and chemists can test a sample of the tapestry for dyes and the age of the fabric itself. If your piece has potential historical interest, then a museum might test the tapestry for historical authenticity for you; private organizations like Castle Tapestry also offer this service.

[Tony C]

Sorry to get off the track here and please excuse my ignorance...but why is Robin Lumsden showing his status as "banned" ???

[maestro]

Tony C Sorry to get off the track here and please excuse my ignorance...but why is Robin Lumsden showing his status as "banned" ???

i'm so glad you brought it up.. i had thought i was seeing things!!

[Thorsten B.]

This is the way it goes:

Michael,

Just have a look into the cultural items thread and you can see the ANRI chest with pictures.

If anybody in future might want to purchase a wooden cultural piece from me I have no problem with sending that specific item in for age determination - why should I?

I know that my pieces are authentic and no fakes.

Nonetheless any age determination costs money and if the potential buyer is not willing to pay for the test it won´t be done - just common sense because that test is not for free.

I certainly agree with you:

Higher end wooden cultural pieces like these chests or boxes we are talking about ought for sure be added up front with such an age determination test - then the costs for the test will be included in the sales price anyway.

It is the best argument and worth far more than any other written COA from any dealer since this institute is completely independent and offers the most professional handling, service and scientific methods.

If a dealer does not want to let his offered wooden pieces get checked then one needs to be cautious to say the least - that´s clear.

But if a potential buyer has a problem with the fact that a little hole needs to be drilled into the wooden object in question (that is necessary for taking a piece of wood out of it and examine that to check the age - read the website carefully) then he needs to live with the impossibility to do the test and then there is also no doubtless guarantee about the authenticity of the piece in question.

[Gaspare]

Robin

Jeez I thought he just came back on board not too long ago?! He's got to hold the record for suspensions here..

[maestro]

[Anthony Evans]

....Matthäus, here are some basic pointers!

great rules. Another one would be to pick up a small black light (i know they have them the size of lazer pointers). its a great way to test it (granted not always a great test espically if they washed it recently with detergant but still a good way)

[Capt. R]

Here's a sure way on how to avoid fakes....

Put your hard-earned money in the bank.


There are no easy ways to tell originality and there is nothing gained by putting your faith in pseudo-science. This is not Third Reich CSI.

Anyhow, maybe I am oversimplifying but how do you know someone didn't just make a fake out of old wood?? Old wood may make a new fake, right?

[Thorsten B.]

Don,

On the one hand collectors ask for possibilities to be able to separate junk from authentic pieces - in this case regarding wooden pieces.

In my comment 35 within this thread I published a link to the institute with doubtless possibility to get your/any wooden piece checked regarding age determination - but still you guys are neither thankful nor happy about getting knowledge about these possibilities.

Geez - their website is even in english language as well.


So what´s the point?

What do people really want?

Security when buying pieces, right?

Or better spreading BS over other offered pieces although they know they can´t back it up anyway?

Can everybody just bitch about advices, hints and help they get from others here?


If that continues that way you all just blow up your hobby.


And yes - bring your money to the bank - I am sure they will take good care of it.

[Capt. R]

Or real estate. That's the best investment by far for the long term.

I don't see it as blowing up the hobby. As a hobby, it has always been combustible. And fakes and repros masquerading as original only fan the flames of extinction. No wonder people don't want to invest in this stuff - too much risk - and not enough enjoyment - especially when you come to find out your object is a fraud and not for real.

If the hobby comes brashing down, it will because of dealers with too much greed and not enough scholarship in the items. I'm a collector not a dealer. At least the prices will better reflect the true demand then.

[Thorsten B.]

OK - I see your points.

I think things in general need to be dealt with in a discussable manner and way - personal attacks and insults do neither good to anybody nor to a worthful outcome of a discussion about an item in question.

"I´m a dealer, not a collector."

Is it a good and useful argument for finding out the truth about an item being fake/copy/fraud or original and well worth to collect?

I don´t think so: does a collector only collect to collect?

Certainly not - he/she (too bad we hardly see any ladies in this hobby, maybe they are bored by watching dog fights all day long...) wants to collect to gather original pieces - and in my opinion (especially in times we are living in right now) even and especially long-term collectors long for security and also possible future profit by collecting=investing in antique art objects and military/politically significant and valuable pieces of history.

Long-term collectors are long-term thinkers - and actors, good for the market and the hobby!

Short-term thinkers and actors might see the possibility of gathering these valuable objects as a more secure investment also - but without real passion since they are in good hope to make profit - the more quickly the better.

Result: these individuals who long for profit are far more in the risk to run into a fraud than the other category of individuals.
So their hope for profit or at least one another form of investing their money turns into a big loss since they are not driven by passion.

These are potential victims in any hobby or market - so let´s stick together here, gather knowledge, share opinions and do studies on our own since it´s our money we spend and turn it into something good or hit the bricks.

The fact that there might be the chance sometimes to agree to disagree is human after all - if people do not feel comfy to spend their bucks on certain items they should stay away from them - if someone is longing for a war then he should go to where the war is and not bring war with him.

Surprisingly enough we are gathered here to study, collect and take care about the relics of these wars - but not to start new ones with each other.

The ones who believe that wars are enjoyable are either in desperate need to grow up or will die in one - weather if it´s finally their body or their soul does not really matter.