SS Officers peaked cap with bullion Piping

[NTZ]

Now that is not off to a good start now is it Rick? Can you pull down the lining a bit in the front of the cap? Every time I see these extra long pieces of base material with the lining edges tucked in they are generally hiding something on the pasteboard they don’t you to see.

[NTZ]

Oh by the way those pleats are a mess. Absolutely no sign that they sat in that position for 60+ years. Maybe Rick is ready to chime in and school me now.

[Kreager]

This cap is an obvious reworked cap. Come one face the facts that have already been pointed out. Lack of material from the peak and sides (and that aint no illusion Rick), Cap Materials, Extra base material, Inconsistant base thickness, hidden pasteboard, and the list goes on...Here's another shot to clearify another interesting feature on this cap. Hey Rick can you tell us how many Period Generals caps or caps in general, have a base just as inconsistant as this one? Please DavidR, let someone like NTZ take a look at this cap if you feel it is the real deal.

[Kreager]

50+ years in that box, I don't think so. Please don't buy into the story.

[Kreager]

Haven't even talked about this thread yet? This isn't the same thread holding the SB in place. Things that make you go MMMMMM.

[PMan]

Inside

We got the sweatband up without destroying it .The band is starting to come out so I don't want to mess with it too much. The cap is bent due to the short hat box it's been in for 50 Plus years (it's about 1 in shorter than the top of the peak) It springs back down when you try and push it back up. I guess over time and making it stay in the proper position it would stay.
David R.

If you are looking for a German hat constructed entirely different than all the rest, this is it.

[NTZ]

Peter is correct. There is not one aspect of construction that is consistent with period caps including the way the lining is sewn down. Every pic we get shown more and more trouble signs.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Lighting

Are you Guys crazy? It's the Angle of the Shot and the Lighting !! NOT

[Richard P]

Toto...I guess dreams really don't come true.

[Karl S.]

David R.
Even if the cap is bad and the insignia is good you did well for yourself. My buddy was set up near you at the show and you got to the seller seconds before him.

[John T]

This is a very interesting and informative thread. I see what you guys are saying about the dimensions of the cap in relation to the insignia and how this indicates that cloth was cut down to "swap-out" piping thus allowing for fresh material to be used in the sewing and also the point about the material used and the wear patterns.

Having only handled one SS General's visor that came from a vet's grandson that was sold to Mike Beaver I am a novice at these caps, and that was many years ago, maybe 10 or 15 I want to ask the question could these modifications have been period done at the request of the original owner for whatever reason such as personal preference, or would any evidence here suggest that would surely not have been the case?

John

[David R.]

The cap has not been cut down it's smashed down if I put rags in for support it looks the same as the ones posted. Nothing but speculation and pure I don't like this and that is all that's been posted. And a lot of follow the ring master.
David R.

This is a very interesting and informative thread. I see what you guys are saying about the dimensions of the cap in relation to the insignia and how this indicates that cloth was cut down to "swap-out" piping thus allowing for fresh material to be used in the sewing and also the point about the material used and the wear patterns.

Having only handled one SS General's visor that came from a vet's grandson that was sold to Mike Beaver I am a novice at these caps, and that was many years ago, maybe 10 or 15 I want to ask the question could these modifications have been period done at the request of the original owner for whatever reason such as personal preference, or would any evidence here suggest that would surely not have been the case?

John

[NTZ]

The cap has not been cut down it's smashed down if I put rags in for support it looks the same as the ones posted. Nothing but speculation and pure I don't like this and that is all that's been posted. And a lot of follow the ring master.
David R.

David R, you want positive proof it is good or bad? You need to show the right pics. We can tell you with certainly if the right pics are shown. Did you get in under the lining to see what type of pasteboard was used? As in period materials or modern cardboard. Did you get under the lining to look for other holes that would indicate it had heer insignia? Did you get under the lining to see how the pasteboard was attached ( a tough one for fakers to pull off) ? Is the pasteboard attached to the frame at the piping above the cap band? Can you see signs of empty holes on the Visor? Have you checked the base for extra holes on the pasteboard? Have you unfolded any of the pleats to see if the creases make sense? Have you looked for Roman numeral size markings on the lining and measured out the cap? Have you looked at how the linings edges are cut? Fakers like to use pinking shears (never used in period caps) and fold the edge or hide the cut. Have you looked for extra holes in the lining or signs of being re-sewn down? Is the lining even period? For god sakes don’t proclaim everyone a fool unless you even know what your looking for yourself. If you couldn’t identify the signs of a rebuild then you certainly can make no claims of authenticity, right Rick?

[David R.]

You have not in hand inspected the cap either! So why all of the trashing?? Would not a simple we need to have a in hand inspection statement be a much better approach???
It will be inspected but not here. At this point with all of the pointless and mean spirited comments being made I don't trust any one here!
David R.

David R, you want positive proof it is good or bad? You need to show the right pics. We can tell you with certainly if the right pics are shown. Did you get in under the lining to see what type of pasteboard was used? As in period materials or modern cardboard. Did you get under the lining to look for other holes that would indicate it had heer insignia? Did you get under the lining to see how the pasteboard was attached ( a tough one for fakers to pull off) ? Is the pasteboard attached to the frame at the piping above the cap band? Can you see signs of empty holes on the Visor? Have you checked the base for extra holes on the pasteboard? Have you unfolded any of the pleats to see if the creases make sense? Have you looked for Roman numeral size markings on the lining and measured out the cap? Have you looked at how the linings edges are cut? Fakers like to use pinking shears (never used in period caps) and fold the edge or hide the cut. Have you looked for extra holes in the lining or signs of being re-sewn down? Is the lining even period? For god sakes don’t proclaim everyone a fool unless you even know what your looking for yourself. If you couldn’t identify the signs of a rebuild then you certainly can make no claims of authenticity, right Rick?

[John T]

The cap has not been cut down it's smashed down if I put rags in for support it looks the same as the ones posted. Nothing but speculation and pure I don't like this and that is all that's been posted. And a lot of follow the ring master.
David R.

David...this is no circus and no ring-master or followers are present here but naturally on an SS forum there will be excitement generated with such a find. The cap you posted does have smaller dimensions from the pictures of caps posted used as a reference, which alone would not cause one to dismiss a piece as played with or bogus but some other interesting points have been raised which could be addressed and if indeed the dimensions are the same and or similar as you stated they would not be an issue.

Some of the comments posted here are very informative such as by the good reverend doctor (where is gator?) and NTZ and rather than having a bunch of folks following a ring master saying things such as "hey wow great cap" etc... you have some things to look for on your cap to prove whether it is indeed a great original cap, or possibly a put together. You yourself stated that caps were not your forte, well now you have been given some things to look for on this cap. If I had posted a cap I would sure be appreciative for the input both good and bad.

John