Totenkopfring Wear

[CWP]

I don't have time to make side by side comparisons of each photo; I don't have an axe to grind here. To me, there are a number of what appear to be major differences in the photos of the area above. I know that different photos of the same item taken at different times with different lighting can appear to show differences that are not apparent in reality. Here is one more comparison of a different area. I will let people make up their own minds, but I see some big differences here as well.

[PMan]

Images

Here is a comparison photo of the two rings shown by "sgstandard." Looking at this, I can not believe that these are different photos of the same ring. I see a number of big differences that do not seem to be a result of lighting or camera angle.

The images are at a slightly different angle and are lit differently. They could be of the same ring. I do see many similarities but slight difference in them due to what I just described.
Peter

[sgstandard]

Tkr

I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR ALL OF YOU - WHY WOULD A PERSON TRYING TO PULL A SCAM GO ON THIS FORUM AND ANNOUNCE THAT HE MAKES REPRO TKR'S AND POST PHOTOS OF THEM? Give me an example where this has ever happened. Do you know how stupid this sounds? The skull's expression is EXACTLY the same on both. BOTH sets of photos show the same nicks and scratches. The sig rune triangle looks distorted because it's a different angle. Reflections and angles distort some features. I assure you, it is the same ring.
BUT LET'S ASSUME YOU ARE CORRECT (WHICH YOU'RE NOT), YOU'VE PROVEN EXACTLY WHAT? That someone made a casting of their own ring? THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE'VE BEEN ACCUSED OF A SCAM. WHERE ARE THE SCAM RINGS? WHERE ARE THEY FOR SALE? WHERE ARE THESE FAKE RINGS WITH THE SMILING SKULLS? YOU ALL HAVE PICS OF RINGS POSTED THROUGH THE YEARS. WHERE ARE THESE MYSTERIOUS KOEHL RINGS? THIS RING WAS POSTED BY JOSIAS ON GDC 2 YEARS AGO. SHOW ME ANOTHER ONE. WHERE IS THE SCAM, AND HOW DOES IT WORK? SS collector paranoia syndrome has taken you over and you've been led on a fool's mission for a scam that doesn't exist. If you feel that making a repro of something and selling it as such is distasteful, so be it. That's DIFFERENT than accusing someone of a scam without evidence of even one single item ever sold or offered for sale. What I thought was a great bunch of guys has turned into a lynch mob, and not a particularly bright one. The Koehl ring was NEVER offered for sale and I announced we make REPROS from the BEGINNING!! WHERE'S THE SCAM?????????????????????????please elaborate.

[Adrian Stevenson]

"Sgstandard", (I am sorry I don't know your Christain name) you are fairly new to the forum and are an unknown quantity here. You have made a few "jokey" comments and threads and I think people don't know how to take you?

We are serious collectors here and I think nearly everyone hates fakes. Passions get aroused as you can see. You are using caps which is considered shouting. Calm down, step back and have another think. Does the world really need yet another copy of the SS ring? I know you say you will never part with your original, but once copies are made with that name inside them, your original will be forever tainted with a question mark over it. I would urge you and your brother to drop this project. I honestly cannot see any good coming out of it?

Sorry to hear that your brother has been unwell. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Cheers, Ade.

[sgstandard]

Tkr

Thank you for your response and consideration. Caps were only intended for emphasis, not anger, though it's disappointing to be accused of a scam when there never was one. I assure you, as I posted in a very recent topic, that IF and when he ever does complete his project, ALL rings will be stamped with a very noticable mark to distinguish it as not authentic. I've had this debate before, and there ARE many collectors that would love to have a copy, as they'll probably never find or be able to afford a real one. I see nothing wrong with that, but I DO agree that they should be marked accordingly. Thanks again.

[Adrian Stevenson]

We will have to "agree to disagree" on the question of the need for them being made, but I am heartened to know that if they are, they will be marked as replicas.

Cheers, Ade.

[sgstandard]

Tkr

MR. ADRIAN STEVENSON - Thank you for your responses. Despite some animosity generated by my post, the forum has proven invaluable, and was instrumental in our decision that such replicas be "marked". I was initially against this idea for purely aesthetic reasons. Your arguments proved I was wrong, and promise all of you this will, indeed, be done if these rings are ever made. Even though I clown around on the forum to attempt to add humor, I am also a serious collector who has been burned many times. My brother (and myself) has invested a lot of time and effort on this project and would like to see it come to fruition. However, I agree we DO have a responsibility to the collecting community to try to avoid heartache for potential buyers down the road. Best Regards

[Gary Wood]

but what happens when enterprising people take it to a jewellers and have the "R" filled or the same with the name, then tweak them, not saying it will fool those most knowledgeable but what about others?

Is there any need for more fakes of these?

[Gaspare]

can never understand the quest to make the best 'Wearing' copy of the HR..[maybe its the freak out factor ] Those who don't know about military collecting or the ring won't know the difference,,and those who are students of the ring will know its fake [once in their hand]..So why thrive for the best most detailed ring out there!!.. Who cares..UNLESS its a test bed and eventually it will be used to sell as original! !

Copies!?! There are many,,Germania International,,Russian copies,,eBay copies,,Mark Morton,,Chris 'SS Collector' to name just a few. Let it go man..

[Craig Gottlieb]

Here is my view on high-quality Totenkopf Reproductions - they are dangerous, and should be discouraged. Fakes have risen to the level such that it has become nearly impossible to tell a good fake from an original from photos alone. I strongly discourage people from making "close call" judgements online, unless the ring has been inspected by someone in person, who knows what they are doing (I hate using the word "expert.").

I had until recently believed that a TK fake good enough to fool someone with a lot of experience, and who has originals to compare the suspect piece to, does not exist. I even said so in my upcoming book (due out now in February, due to complications with Schiffer's printer). However, now there is a ring that I purchased in Germany about 5 months ago, that Don and I respectfully disagreed over. And I'm now leaning toward Don being right. We've all made mistakes, but that is not the point of my post. What I do want to get across is that any attempt to make a good TK ring copy should be met with forceful opposition.

[USGI]

Sounds like we should have Don Boyle inspect our rings.

[Robin Lumsden]

Sounds like we should have Don Boyle inspect our rings..................

..................as the actress said to the bishop.

[Robin Lumsden]

Sounds like we should have Don Boyle inspect our rings.

At $250 a poke?

[USGI]

If you can afford to lose your a$$ on a $8k-13K Honor Ring, I guess $250.00 really is a small price to pay.

[Robin Lumsden]

If you can afford to lose your a$$ on a $8k-13K Honor Ring, I guess $250.00 really is a small price to pay.

With all due respect, if you are going to spend $8k-13k on a ring, you'd be better doing your own research before buying.

Don't rely totally on the opinion of someone else....................