Totenkopfring Wear

[sgstandard]

Tkr

This was a learning ring project. Hope you like the pics! Some may question the relevancy of this topic. I feel it's an education in the "anatomy of a reproduction". Despite my brother's steady hand, he and I both can tell you that it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce something exactly. No problem. That's not what we want. However, if lasers are being used by some to create a ring, well, that's a different story. Their goal is something different, and not at all honorable.

[DR DOLCH]

I do not appreciate your method to pick forum members brains and dupe us with you scam ring and what can be done to improve it.

[sgstandard]

Tkr

DOLCH - The original Koehl ring was posted earlier on a different thread as a joke where I said I found it in the sand. ("under "Skull Ring"). It was designed to pull everyone's leg and get everyone stirred up. I even told everyone this was the case. I NEVER asked for anyone's opinion until it's authenticity was questioned. The ONLY reason anyone's "brain was picked" was because my brother and I both always assumed it was original, and some forum members were now questioning it. I never expected that it would be questioned and I wanted to know why. Go back and read the thread. Besides, if we were scamming anybody, why would we post photos of the wax ring in progress, and show the name on the ring? It doesn't even make sense. A guy named Morton made rings he sold as repros for years and EVERYONE knew it. So WE'RE not allowed to try to make a better one? A lot of collectors must think it's a good idea, because Josias was innundated with requests for one. Here's my advice: If you see a Totenkopfring with the name "Koehl' , don't buy it. I have the original, it'll never be sold, and it's EXTREMELY unlikely there's another.

[sgstandard]

Tkr

FOOTNOTE: DR. DOLCH has accused us of a scam. Since the ring we're making has been announced as a repro, including photos of the EXACT wax model used to make the ring, along with photos of the EXACT inside inscription, including the name and date, we would like an explanation as to exactly where the alledged scam may lie. With the exception of a few humorous pranks, our intentions have always been honorable and forthright, as previous posts on GDC and this forum will confirm. This accusation has no basis or merit, and is not only absurd, but slanderous. We will await an apology and/or retraction.

[DR DOLCH]

Looks like a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation too me,so don't hold your breath.

[Fritz]

Looks like a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation too me,so don't hold your breath.

I am with you, Dr. Dolch!


Cheers

Fritz

[Matthew]

I think the point Dr Dolch is trying to pass across is that even if you have most honorable of all intentions (and no reason to doubt that) and the copies of the ring will be mass produced its only a matter of time they find their way to less than honest sellers, and lets face it-what is easier to do-produce a very close copy of the ring or alter the engraving inside to dupe prospective buyers?
You can't really be suprised by responses you get here from members who have to dig through piles of repros to get the real artifacts they're after, more often than not losing money in the learning process.
Trying to fish for pointers as to how to make your copy more convincing here on the forum and getting a positive response to your inquiries will no doubt prove harder than finding nazis in Germany in the 50's.
As for your description of trying to make "everyday wearing copy", most members here are serious collectors who have some of the finest antiques available but (And Im of course speaking for myself here) I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a symbol of criminal organization just because some might think its stylish. Collecting is one thing, turning it into a fetish is quite another.
I hope my response here will not stir too much emotions, its not meant that way, Im very sorry to hear about your brother misfortune and wish him a quick recovery, I also hope your project will not become a reality as I will be looking for TK ring in near future and that could only cause me (and others) additional headache.
Respectfully
Matt

[billcarson]

Try this one Matt, coming up for sale next month at a well known auctioneers in Munich. Est 2500 Euros,
Silver. Made to measure by the Gahr Jewellers in Munich, soldered together beneath the separately applied death's head. Has a dedication engraving on the inside, "S.lb. von Weppeler 20.4.38. H. Himmler" (To his dear von Weppeler 20 April 1938 H. Himmler). Weight 7.6 g. Heavy wear marks. The exterior is almost entirely effaced. Includes a photo appraisal by Detlev Niemann.

[DR DOLCH]

In summary It is so obivious and there is nothing veiled or misconstrue about it.Just start on page one first post.Here is a ring that some say is artificially worn,is that the case.Then ask for details as to why members think it is a reproduction.Then better pictures of the same ring are supplied and members now think its original.Members give details on what an original ring will have.(Fooling even the best,what about a novice ?) Even the subject matters of the pictures of the ring are identical,same angle ect.Now members think the better pictures supplied show in fact it is an original ring and there were mistaken on the first set of pictures of the ring.After I call attention to the fact that it is two different rings.It turns into a joke and everybody knew the facts of the matter as it was being laid out.I do not buy it and from now on will be very careful on details of items that people want opinions on (:}X

[DR DOLCH]

Bill, Weppler had the ring in 1935 so it must of been lost in the mail until 1938.

[Gary Wood]

In summary It is so obivious and there is nothing veiled or misconstrue about it.Just start on page one first post.Here is a ring that some say is artificially worn,is that the case.Then ask for details as to why members think it is a reproduction.Then better pictures of the same ring are supplied and members now think its original.Members give details on what an original ring will have.(Fooling even the best,what about a novice ?) Even the subject matters of the pictures of the ring are identical,same angle ect.Now members think the better pictures supplied show in fact it is an original ring and there were mistaken on the first set of pictures of the ring.After I call attention to the fact that it is two different rings.It turns into a joke and everybody knew the facts of the matter as it was being laid out.I do not buy it and from now on will be very careful on details of items that people want opinions on (:}X

I am also not happy how this thread was started either,

[Robin Lumsden]

I am a bit confused with how this thing has developed.

The first ring posted (in this or the other thread??) did not look right to me. The wear looked artificial.

The another set of pictures was posted, apparently of the same ring, which looked fine.

Then it transpired that the person posting both sets of pix had access to an original ring from which cast copies have been or are being made.

It's all a bit odd.

Suffice it to say, my gut feeling remains that the first ring posted was wrong and the second one was right.

I'm not convinced that they are one and the same. One could be cast from another.

Anyway, this whole saga shows that it is almost impossible to give totally accurate judgements on things like this from photos alone.

[Matthew]

Thanks Bill for the news about the auction, its appreciated, also thanks to Dr for additional info, guess I will have to hurry up and snatch one up before more reproductions are made. On the other hand I heard somewhere (most likely on WAF) that near perfect reproductions are making their way out of former USSR, anyone heard about those? Any truth to it? Maybe someone has a pic or two? The whole thing just gives me headache, good thing Im in a company of people who studied those things before I was born.
Again thanks for your help guys
Cheers
Matt

[clevischi]

I am very confused too...

[Robin Lumsden]

I am very confused too...

Glad to see I'm not the only one.

I thought it was old age.