Another Allgemeine Cap

[NTZ]

Close up

[sgstandard]

RZM Mark

Hats off to NTZ !!!! Literally !! I DID notice the line on the left side but didn't notice it formed a square. It's really noticable once you point it out. I think they cut the RZM logo out of a square piece of tape with an Exacto-knife, stuck it on the bill, and used it as a stencil to paint the logo. I think the finish of the bill lifted off or was discolored when they removed the tape.

IMPORTANT: Just because the RZM logo on the bill is sloppy or distorted, doesn't mean it's not authentic. This is NOT uncommon on original caps, but they still usually look much better than this.

GOOD CALL, NTZ !!!!!!!

[PMan]

Discoloration

Hats off to NTZ !!!! Literally !! I DID notice the line on the left side but didn't notice it formed a square. It's really noticable once you point it out. I think they cut the RZM logo out of a square piece of tape with an Exacto-knife, stuck it on the bill, and used it as a stencil to paint the logo. I think the finish of the bill lifted off or was discolored when they removed the tape.

IMPORTANT: Just because the RZM logo on the bill is sloppy or distorted, doesn't mean it's not authentic. This is NOT uncommon on original caps, but they still usually look much better than this.

GOOD CALL, NTZ !!!!!!!

I think they stamped it once and were not satisfied, removed the first stamping with a solvent causing the discoloration..and then stamped it again, finally getting the satisfactory result. Cutting a stencil of that logo would be a major, virtually impossible task, especially the fine little letters.
Peter

[sgstandard]

Cap

Does this mean you like the cap? My cap is original and the stamping is quite sloppy, and on others I've seen as well. I' don't think they'd take the trouble to remove and restamp. Add this question mark to all the others = Too many questions IMO.

[NTZ]

It is hard to say for sure what they did to make those marks. Given the sharp crisp nature of the lines I don’t think they rubbed off a bad mark, although totally possible if they had that section taped off. It was some kind of tape stencil to help make the RZM logo. When they lifted it it probably lifted some of the lacquer on the visor. JMO.

[PMan]

The cap

Does this mean you like the cap? My cap is original and the stamping is quite sloppy, and on others I've seen as well. I' don't think they'd take the trouble to remove and restamp. Add this question mark to all the others = Too many questions IMO.

Perhaps you missed my posts on the previous page.
Peter

[Antonio Scapini]

I write my answer for Hawesj...

I'm not an expert for SS items, and everytime i had to buy something and i had some doubt, i put here my questions because i know that from this people i have only to learn.
But i know and i have my fields of experience obviously in history (i teach), and for some items and research (i'm working in federal archive). I studied for long time a lot of items survived from concentration camps, and my first answer about the fakes was referred about the uniforms of lager's prisoners.
I have a lot of documentation about, and here i post some pictures (some of them you can even find on the web), to show the difference between an original one and a fake.

Think only that, as you know, item as this are really difficult to find and at the same time really simple to fake. In original tunics of prisoners there were no ink number made by hands (except for VERY RARE cases), and the symbols as jewish star, or triangles were in cotton or wool and sewn. NO PAINT with different colours and even in wrong way! Look at the buttonhole and you can see a really modern tipe of sewn. And the textile too looks really suspected, because the tunic were built with no good materials and this one seem to have a very good weaving.

Another question. The Kapo in concentration lagers didn't wear the same cloth of the rest of prisoners, they were different (the Kapos are always the most hated from the inmates).

About this we can write and speck for a lot of time, here i try to be simple, because i think this isn't the right place for discussions like this.

I put some pictures, and after some items in my collection.
I let you think if they are or not original.

This is a Buchenwald kapo: (look what he wear)


Others kapos in Mauthausen:


Jewish police in West.:


These are Buchenwald survived: (look at tunics)


Sachsenhausen prisoners:


Other prisoners in Buchennwald:


Dachau inmate uniform:


THIS came froms Dachau, it shows the differeces between prisoners and symbols:


This is a REALLY kapo's armband from Majdanek camp:


This is a really ghetto kapo:


A Majdanek armband:


An armband of a jewish police man:


this is from Stanislawow Ghetto:



These came from my home:
The first is a fake: look at the same weaving as the tunic in website


another one from my home i let you understand...


and this is the last one from my home:



Finally i put a web adress that is REALLY an "HORROR SHOW". I have no words to describe this site and these items. In past i told you about this one and i hope that no one can think to buy something from him.
Please look at the "concentration camp" section and in the lower one.
THIS IS CHEAT and FRAUD.

http://www.jewishmemory.info

[Antonio Scapini]

I hope to be of help.

[PMan]

Kapo Armband

I hope to be of help.

Is this armband something for you?

[Antonio Scapini]

Hi Peter, this is an hand-made item, and for this tipe of armband is always difficult be sure about its originality. For tunics there are some particulars that can be revealed, but for armband it's too hard, because there were no rules in building.
However looks strange a stamp over white paint and the weaving seems similar to the jeans from this picture. If it's cotton i see in wrong way.
If you are sure about its provenance keep it, but i'm scheptic about it. Even at yad vash. came fakes of armbands, and abot the 50% of items arived after the war were fake.
Today the really only way to have something original is take it from a survived or a direct parent, or see it in holocaust museum of jerusalem that is probably the best for survived items.
The problems here are: weaving and painting with stamp (is not uncommon in fakes find a stamp...) in original armbans stamps were not very often used.

I post some other pictures of different items:

This is a tunic came from Flossenburg:


ID tag:


A cap from Ravensbruck:


Weaving of stars:


Fake armband:


Real one: (Really similar to fake up for materials and building. Today, as i told, if for uniforms of Wehrmacht and SS there are some rules and a lot of books about, for this field no.)

[PMan]

The armband

Hi Peter, this is an hand-made item, and for this tipe of armband is always difficult be sure about its originality. For tunics there are some particulars that can be revealed, but for armband it's too hard, because there were no rules in building.
However looks strange a stamp over white paint and the weaving seems similar to the jeans from this picture. If it's cotton i see in wrong way.
If you are sure about its provenance keep it, but i'm scheptic about it. Even at yad vash. came fakes of armbands, and abot the 50% of items arived after the war were fake.
Today the really only way to have something original is take it from a survived or a direct parent, or see it in holocaust museum of jerusalem that is probably the best for survived items.
The problems here are: weaving and painting with stamp (is not uncommon in fakes find a stamp...) in original armbans stamps were not very often used.

I post some other pictures of different items:

This is a tunic came from Flossenburg:


ID tag:


A cap from Ravensbruck:


Weaving of stars:


Fake armband:


Real one: (Really similar to fake up for materials and building. Today, as i told, if for uniforms of Wehrmacht and SS there are some rules and a lot of books about, for this field no.)

The armband is on a website: www.warelics.com. It is claimed that it was a vet bring back. Check it out! I saw it in person and I like it.
Regards, Peter

[Antonio Scapini]

Hi Peter, if you saw the armband you can have a better opinion. As i wrote before, TODAY it's really impossible find tunic or other original if not by a vet or an inmate. I studied for a long time these, and my answer was clear. Personally from picture i keep my idea, it seems strong weaving, i don't know if it's cotton (you saw it and you can know) or not. I saw a lot of pictures from Oranienbug and more and more camps but never saw an armband like this, and never a kapo's armband with numbers or letter as this one, but very often you can see "auschwitz" "dachau" "treblinka" write in fakes.
IMO i think that no one should be spent a lot of money for an item with doubt, considering that today all the concentration's camp items are impossible to find.
From what i undestood this armband came from a vet family, if i kept this from the hand of an inmate i can believe, if not let me show my schepticism.
I showed that the fakes are simple to do and to find, and the material of construction of this one give me some doubt, is not as usual cotton used and have a doubt stamp. If you're sure i'm happy for you!

All my best regards Peter!

[Hawesj]

Thanks anthony

Great reference material!!

What do you think of the other prisoners uniform on his site?

Jawes

[darekm]

Questions for NTZ

If you do not like the discolaration of the rzm mark on my visor, what about the ones in these shots?

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Waffe...s/S021458.html

Also, if Peter from the Guild gives this a certificate of authenticity ( except for the insignia ), does that mean that his expertise should be questioned?

Thanks, Dk

[darekm]

Question for sg standard

You mention that the diamond is not asymmetrical. What about these shots

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Waffe...s/S021458.html