i have trouble trusting anything that comes from a guy that thinks he has an 'original oak leaf camo jump smock'
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Who has one of those? and what tunic are you talking about?Comment
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History of the tunic?
Seems real sketchy that the Original Buyer said the Owner had Alzheimers and he bought it from the Brother of the man after he died.To me that seems like its way to Convenient of an excuse.When did the Previous owner aquire it?..we will never know.Kinda like my Dog ate my Homework,Just have to take my word for it unless you examine the pile : )Comment
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You dont buy the story you buy the uniform. The dealer selling the uniform does not offer a story with it so he is not complicit in any "storytelling". Bill only offered the story to the forum because he happens to be the first buyer and the tunic has been on a website for over 6 years and Bill never tried to sell it with this story here or anywhere that I know of.
Being a skeptic is good but better to not cast dispersions on something without all the facts. As it stands the uniform look very good and shows nothing to set it out as refurbished..The one way to know more is to go and see it and put it through the tests or have someone who has done this verify it.
Sorry if I dont come across too warmly,but anonymous names with only 31 posts and such a sure degree of skepticism raise red flags for me.Not to mention youre out of the Chicago area, not that thats bad but alot of anonymous skeptic "experienced" collectors seem to arise from that neck of the woods.Last edited by John Pic; 12-07-2007, 02:14 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by John Pic View Post
I like the looks of that one a lot! In my observation of period photos I would say that at least in field photos from about 1942 on, the majority of SS tunics seen did not have cuff titles. The actual % seems to vary depending on the unit and I realize that not all units were authorized titles. Most LAH unit photos seem to show that they mostly wore titles, the other divisions (especially those higher than the 3rd) are another story.Comment
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Thanks Phil, it has a story but I will keep that to myself as there is no documented proof. I was lucky to get it and had been aware of it for awhile before it was consigned to a dealer friend of mine. Very few collectors realize that many many SS soldiers were not in premier or classic divisions that wore cufftitles. The Cavalry Brigade was one of these until it became a division, Florian Geyer, later in the war many of its original members were killed in the east before this occured.Poor storage has taken a toll on it over the years but otherwise it stayed in fairly decent shape.Comment
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Sorry
John Pic, is that a picture of Arlo Guthrie?Comment
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Ya Know looking at the Number of Posts is a really Bull Crap way to make Judgments and that has No bearing on what the discussion is.Actually I have seen the Tunic Locally through a freind right after it was acquired by The Doc.I have found when pushed a bit the first response is "oh we dont evem know your name"...My God 3/4 of this and Other forums all use pseudonyms or "screen Names"
I know a FEW dealers out your way who would lie right to your Face on weather something is good or not so Whats the Point of where I am from.You guys are dealing in this Minefield that you all pretty much made.
Also My Name is TOM CARROLL and Your right you dont come across very warm at all.Comment
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Not THE Roy Carroll that could have appeared on "The Jerry Springer Show", but declined?Originally posted by busterz111 View Post
BradComment
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Nope...I know Roy but he is from Out East.Comment
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How is he doing, O.K.? Personally, I never did get the opportunity to meet him, but he did seem like the ultimate "regular Joe" that I've always enjoyed!Originally posted by busterz111 View Post
But beyond this aversion from the specific subject at hand, I really must say that I for one would be very pleased to own the tunic that we are all getting so wound up over - I think it is very nice, and personally, I wouldn't care what anyone else would say to change my mind. Some day we are all going to have to get over the fear of forgery, trust our own judgement, and learn to rely on, and choose to protect each other, or we will all undoubtedly die in this hobby from the stress of our very own peer-pressure . . . this is a very difficult subject indeed!
BradComment
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On Topic
Getting back to the tunic, it looks good enough to get in hand with a reasonable inspection period. I see no red flags from the fotos. Could be a nice pick-up at the right price. All I know about it's history is that Bill Rannow(sp) bought it from a Dr., no not the Dr. that wore it during the War. And I think Bill sold it to Dr. D and then it went to Kris. It has some points that really give it hope.Comment
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Dr. S,Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
For the sake of all the "newbies" now (and maybe even myself!), and in the future, would you mind giving all of us an abridged (and yet applicably detailed) lesson on all of the referenced euphamisms that you have utilized in this statement - it will prove itself quite worthy in the future, I'm sure! I believe many here may be wondering about whom you are referring to, about each of their respective backgrounds, and what they have have contributed in the past to all of our benefit, or how they should interpret their respective reference you are making attribtion to. It would do so much for everyone new if we could COMPLETELY explain what we are intending to offer as guidance . . .
Thank you, personally . . .
BradComment
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The outline of the Heer breast-eagle is clearly evident in the 3rd pic of the website. Since nobody else seems to have noticed it, look again. Look for the round wreath above the pocket directly above the button. Then follow the outline up and to the left, right up to the point on the top left corner of the wing. While this doesn't disprove that an SS officer commandeered the tunic wartime, it does prove (arguably) that a Heer officer had worn it previously, since no fading, however slight, should be evident on an unissued tunic. While this may indeed not be evident in hand, and to the naked-eye, modern cameras will generally pick it up. It is absolutely the very first thing I look for when examining EVERY "SS" tunic. I remember sitting with Mike Horetsky at the MAX back in '93 or '94, when a friend of his (your typical know-it-all) came running over all excited with a hauptsturmfuhrer's tunic he just dropped $2K on (top-dollar back thenOriginally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
). He was examining it, and everything looked OK, but the breast-eagle area caught my eye, so I told him to look on the inside and hold it up to the light. Sure enough, even with the ****ty ceiling lights of the convention center, the perfect dot-dot-dot outline of a Heer eagle came shining through. I guess the faker, in his haste, forgot to steam-iron the inside the night before. I told him he better go and get his money back right away, but it was obvious he was too proud to admit that he could possibley have been fooled. Anyway, IMO, that tunic like this one, is worth no more than the sum of it's parts. And coincidentally $2K is still just about right . . .
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Touche' . . . . but I don't see it on my screen!Originally posted by Brian Bonini View PostThe outline of the Heer breast-eagle is clearly evident in the 3rd pic of the website. Since nobody else seems to have noticed it, look again. Look for the round wreath above the pocket directly above the button. Then follow the outline up and to the left, right up to the point on the top left corner of the wing. While this doesn't disprove that an SS officer commandeered the tunic wartime, it does prove (arguably) that a Heer officer had worn it previously, since no fading, however slight, should be evident on an unissued tunic. While this may indeed not be evident in hand, and to the naked-eye, modern cameras will generally pick it up. It is absolutely the very first thing I look for when examining EVERY "SS" tunic. I remember sitting with Mike Horetsky at the MAX back in '93 or '94, when a friend of his (your typical know-it-all) came running over all excited with a hauptsturmfuhrer's tunic he just dropped $2K on (top-dollar back then ). He was examining it, and everything looked OK, but the breast-eagle area caught my eye, so I told him to look on the inside and hold it up to the light. Sure enough, even with the ****ty ceiling lights of the convention center, the perfect dot-dot-dot outline of a Heer eagle came shining through. I guess the faker, in his haste, forgot to steam-iron the inside the night before. I told him he better go and get his money back right away, but it was obvious he was too proud to admit that he could possibley have been fooled. Anyway, IMO, that tunic like this one, is worth no more than the sum of it's parts. And coincidentally $2K is still just about right . . .Comment
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