Der Fuhrer Obersturmbannfuhrer Tunic

[judas]

If you will read carefully you see I answered you already.........I have not seen everything, that would be an absurd statement. Also many collectors only collect text book so to speak items, I believe in other items that existed as well. Problem is if you have a sub-standard item, burden of proof it's real lies on you. as it does not conform to known original examples. I expressed my thoughts on the tabs, the eagle I've seen real ones similiar to it. Could the tailor of put the shoulder boards on backwards, maybe but I doubt it. Again not a piece for my collection. More oddities than normalities.

be for i get my head bit off your right they are onbackwards i had to look twice i think it could be a easy mistake for a tailor to make even back then i my self do not think i would have noticed that if i was picking it up from the tailor its not in your face so to speak .YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE

[NTZ]

If you will read carefully you see I answered you already.........

Sorry, I did not read your entire post. Another correction, this is not the tunic Bob had on estand but the point is still the same.

[NTZ]

be for i get my head bit off your right they are onbackwards i had to look twice i think it could be a easy mistake for a tailor to make even back then i my self do not think i would have noticed that if i was picking it up from the tailor its not in your face so to speak .YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE

Seeing that I can show you many, many Heer collar tabs that are on backwards on 100% untouched tunics I would say these sort of errors occurred more frequently than we think.

[John Pic]

Anyone so willing to participate in such discussions should offer what they have as examples and share with the forums,photos and descriptions . This is a learning place not a place to lurk and snipe at others items.

[judas]

i have offered to show tunics named and unnamed ss and army and none german battle worn to show differnent wear and color at differnent times but no one has helped me to put photos up when i have asked to add to a topic so i take it most have all the tunics them selfs so whats the point??a lest i know i can back up with them not like some

[B. N. Singer]

I see your name attached to a lot of “I don’t like it” posts. You try and give the impression you are a long time advanced collector (which you may be) but I never see any further assessment attached to your findings. Surely if you are so advanced you can put your thoughts into words. Maybe you can give some of us less advanced collectors your thoughts....Sorry if I seem skeptical of exactly how “advanced” your knowledge is but a little detail can go a long way.
Nick

Yes, well, I know a certain other person that has a tendency to do the same thing.

B. N. Singer

[NTZ]

Yes, well, I know a certain other person that has a tendency to do the same thing.

B. N. Singer

Yes but that person has earned it so go right ahead.

[B. N. Singer]

Yes but that person has earned it so go right ahead.

I would have to think Nick, that person would be flattered.

With regards,

Bryon (B. N.) Singer

[judas]

now the topic is turning in to secret squirrels i would like to here others thoughts on the boards has eny one come across this on other items

[John Pic]

Not directed at anyone in particular but I know of people who lurk and only comment who behind the scenes try to sell items with no proof of origin for huge sums of money. The info world turns behind the computer screen.

Judas you have helped me in the past I would be happy to assist you in posting photos of anything.

Others..I just think if you have such a vested interest in offering opinions to a forum on your hobby you should at least share what you have to validate what you know.

Its always funny that when a tunic with no possible history that is textbook no one comments except novices.
But when a tunic with some history possibly connected yet isnt quite textbook is posted all the experienced Guys who have stake in the Game suddenly jump out to comment usually in the negative. Because "SS tunics are as rare as Hens teeth" except the ones they own and sell.

[John Pic]

Well, look around you might find some lots of tabs posted on this and other forums..who is the one with an agenda?

There is always something to discuss when an item of such great rarity is posted I would think?

[judas]

like bob said cottage industry maybe some can show what they class as cottage industry tabs and so on. i my self like what i see with the tab very hands on made nice shape this is not the run of the mill tunic we are looking at i mean we can not just dame a tunic because of this one tab they where not made with laser guidance .its well knowin that a officer could add his personal touch . and i do not think bob is eny ones fool .so i like the tab just my thoughts i do not have hundreds to go on but i would like to hear more on the boards

[John Pic]

Of all the fake tabs posted on forums and documented in books especially those made in the 1960s and 70s Ive never seen the correct type of piping used like is shown in that picture, the dimensions also look to good for a fake tab. No its not textbook.

In law the burden of proof is on the accuser, Bob has presented his proof, the tunic itself and nothing to me screams reproduction.No the prosecution must present EVIDENCE to the contrary other than "I know Im experienced".

[Bob Hritz]

I spent the afternoon going through books with lots of original photos. The shoulder boards, placed backwards, seems to be a common misapplication, during the 3rd Reich era. I have seen several, just looking through period published and private photos, in my books. Just looking through Jost Schneider's "THEIR HONOR WAS lOYALTY", I found most unusual runic tabs on pages 42, 221, and 272. I will spend some time, this week, seeking other anomolies, in the period photos of tunics.

I did have the pleasue of seeing this tunic, over the years, and all insignia appears to have always been in place. I only know it from the former owner, back in the 1970's. I have seen many fake runic collar tabs, but these are not the materials used in the 1960's fakes. I know, I made many mistakes as a young collcetor, and had quite a collection of mistakes, prior to traveling to the SS Mecca: Kansas City. There I learned what to look for in materials, construction and application. Now these old fakes are laughable, but back then, I had nothing to go on.

I do dread the day I will sell my collection. I fear that every tunic will be questioned and, of course, demands of discount if I can't 'prove' authenticity. I would not know how to prove to anyone that they are authentic. Those from vets are the more common lower ranks and camoflague types. the others I have obtained from collectors and my competetors, who ran ads when I was traveling America, advertising for militaria. Who would have thought, back in the 1970's and 1980s that anyone would care about who brought home a tunic or hat. Certainly, I didn't. I only cared when I bought a rare US para tunic, or the like, and would ask the vet to put it on and I took their photos. German stuff was often not remembered, by the vets, exactly how they got them. Many times, they just traded from other soldiers, so all the stories I hear now I find a bit far-fetched. About every 3rd 2nd Luftwaffe dagger I bought from a vet was taken in hand-to-hand combat the the "SS trooper". They told the stories for so long that they believed them, themselves. Most of the thousands of vets I have bought from had no individual recollection of single items other than if it was big and hard to get back to ship it home. I bought from thousands of vets and I still take with a grain of salt many of the vet stories I hear today.

Bob Hritz

[judas]

It may very well be real & untouched & just have a series of coincidental traits about it. Who knows, it may also be an SS tunic restored years ago, who knows. For what it is worth those are my observations & my opinion would be without provenance it's hard to say for certain & has several possibilities.

jerry i have a nice officers black tunic i would get hell for on here but i have put it down to only 3
possibilites to its history . now this tunic would start a fight but i know it in side and out to the best besides going back in time