Visor cap fans - check this out

[BenVK]

I was watching a programme about the WSS last night and spotted this WSS Officer. The film was taken by American soldiers on the west bank of the river Elbe in 45. I think it completely dispells the myth that coloured piped caps were only worn for a short period earlier on in the war.

[BenVK]

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[BenVK]

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[BenVK]

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[Bobwirtz]

The authorized period for these colored branch caps was April to November 1940 with an authorized wear out period. Certainly soldiers (particularly officers) continued to wear these caps throughout the war and beyond the authorized wear out period. And certainly there were some cases where an officer had one of these caps made after the authorized 8-month period in 1940. But, don't take this single picture and believe that it is proof of everybody doing it, or even a large number doing it. Yes, some people disobeyed regulations; however, they were the minority and a small one at that. Original caps with colored branch piping that have survived the war today are extremely rare and hard to come by. 99% of these caps that show up everywhere are reproductions. People who manufacture reproductions for the reenactors push the myth that everybody wore these and it was normal and that white was for infantry. They also make LAH shoulder straps with branch color embroidered ciphers, which are a fantasy. Don't think for a moment that ONE picture is going to dispell the fact that original caps like this are rare finds. If you want to go out and buy one of these branch color piped caps for your collection then go and do it - buy one of every color... but I doubt if you're going to be picking up authentic pieces. Whenever I see one of these I automatically ASSUME it is a reproduction... guilty until proven innocent... because there are too many fakes and so very few originals. Each of my fellow collectors can make up their own mind but I'll be very careful whenever I encounter one of these... like I said, fake until proven different and then taken with skeptism!

Bob

[John Pic]

Everything in this hobby should be viewed with healthy skepticism.

However no one knows how common or uncommon the use of color piped caps was except from what they read on paper.An interesting fact is that the officer in the photo is an untersturmfuhrer and there is quite a high chance that he was not an officer in 1940-41,possibly not even in the armed services yet at that time if he is young enough.How did he get a color piped visor?

I keep hearing people say that these "fake" color piped caps abound. That all the dealers have pushed them.Ive been watching the web for 8 years now and sorry but I dont see the big push to sell these by anyone.Manions has had a couple and one dealer in particular had several at one time but they were quickly shot down despite only a couple people examining them hands on.

More often I see collectors,experienced and unexperienced who right away want to shoot down evidence of the possibility that the textbook authors are not always right. As our friend Dr. Abenheim pointed out after reading a text on German uniforms one must use caution in establishing absolute rules in uniformity. If rules of uniformity were consistantly broken then how can one rule stand and not have been?

Himmler also ordered around the same time period 40-41,that all SS officers would use tunics that closed at the neck with only one hook.How many later war double hooked SS officer tunics are in collections and sold by dealers? Would you assume these too are all post war examples?

This theory holds no water without harder evidence.Although I will repeat that healthy skepticism about ANY Waffen SS visor is rule of thumb.

[REMUS]

Hello Ben,
I immediately recognized this soldier.I saw him on a documentaire of the waffen SS that was on Flemish tv about 3 years ago,I still have the tape and,played it,and yes,it's that very one!! It looks like he is tall,nervous,but not afraid...
Indeed,you can see clear that the piping is not white,sure would like to know what it is...
thanks for these pics,
thanks Bob,John for the info.

All the best,Jeremy

[ReichsHeini]

Yes, some people disobeyed regulations; however, they were the minority and a small one at that.

You speak as if you were there and know this as a fact, which I don't think is the case.
Yes, these are rare to find today but I don't think any of us can say just how much the regulations were ignored.
This film clip and other photographic evidence clearly show that the colored piped visors were in fact worn to the end of the war.

[BenVK]

Don't think for a moment that ONE picture is going to dispell the fact that original caps like this are rare finds. If you want to go out and buy one of these branch color piped caps for your collection then go and do it.
Bob

Bob, that's not what I meant. Of course these are extremely rare things to find nowadays. This is merely an image that shows a branch piped cap being not only worn after the wear out period but in the last few days of the war. That was quite a surprise to me which is why I thought others might want to see it also.

BTW I did buy a coloured piped cap thanks very much. The KZ Lager NCO's cap, did you see it?

[John Pic]

Ben I forgot to mention thanks for the image of the young officer it is very interesting and captures the esssence of a young combat officer at wars end. Some interesting points.

1. He is wearing the color piped visor
2. He did not strip off his uniform and burn it before capture as many have been said do have done.
3. He appears to be wearing an enlisted tunic or custom made field tunic.
I wonder what unit this man was from? Look at how tall he is compaired to his captors.

[BenVK]

Another image from the same bit of footage. Anyone know who this KC winner is?

[billmunny]

could it be?

looks like Jurgen Wagner..?

[Bobwirtz]

Also notice the SS-Untersturmfuhrer is wearing a camouflaged smock... something the early guys got since they stopped making them in 1944. This guy may have been around longer than you think. Maybe he was given a field commission to officer.

Looks like Wagner in the second series of pictures... he's not wearing a branch piped cap - aluminum piped maybe because he was a general. He was taken prisoner in Italy, wasn't he?

Bob

[fknorr]

There was a decent thread on this topic on the old WMCA forum which had some cool insight from John Moore via some of his SS Signals Vets.

There is no doubt that these were worn waaaaaaaaaaaaay past the wear-out date, through the end of the war, for as shown above there is plenty of photographic evidence.

However, if a person believes there are more than a handful of real ones out there (99.9% in advanced private collections) they are kidding themselves. I believe Bob Coleman stated he only handled like 2-3 over the course of his lifetime and another old time hat collector I know has handled a similar amount that he actually thought that were real.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Nice catch Ben!

It's nice to see such a very rare piece of footage! Kind of like the first photograph of the Coelacanth . . . . at least it helps all of us believe in the VERY RARE!

Brad