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Show Us Your Branch-Piped W-SS Visor

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    Eigemaechtigkeit

    This inquiry always leads to a dead end. The issue of vanity here is not so much of pleasing vimmin, as it is one that the army was the most prestige laden institution in Prussia-Germany, regardless of Schickelgruber. There is much evidence of how certain members of the SS-at-arms sought to emulate the army, as others (i.e. Eicke &c.) sought to distance themselves from the caste-bound, dynastic antedelluvian elitism of same. The idea of the Zauber der Montur meant that surely some figures aped miltiary styles, even when it was against regulations. Colleague Rygaard's images are incontrovertible data to this effect. I refer you again to the list of violations of dress regulations in the Reichswehr, which, overtime, became tolerated conventions of dress in the German army all the same. Himmler did not like white shirts, for instance, since he considered the brown shirt to be the most powerful symbol of the movement, &c. However, the SS then wore white shirts for formal orders of dress; the examples of nutty ideological attempts to distance the SS from the army are legion, and the proscription of the colored piping was one of these. However, the Wilkins book makes clear that: a.) tailors did not know the regulations; b.) customers desired military style clothing of racy, elegant appearance and broke regulations. I.e. shortening of the Feldbluse or Rock to effect a more elegant, equestrian appearance, much favored and seen as the height of manliness. This is what I meant by vanity, actually.
    SS caps are rare, and grey SS caps are more rare, and the handful of grey caps with colored Paspel are more rare still. Their appearance is like the big foot or the Loch Ness monster, but they do, indeed, exist as certain of my readers will attest. However, granted the peculiar dynamics of these kinds of examinations, one has given the owners of same little incentive to share them. This fact applies actually to many pieces and many collectors, in fact. I should note that a piece on offer on a German site was generally lambasted recently, only then to reappear on another site on another continent, and then to become the subject of great malicious animal magnetism.

    Sapere aude. POSTSCRIPTUM Most SS stuff shown on most sites is.....fake...such a generalization hardly applies solely to the caps with the colored Paspel.
    Last edited by Donald Abenheim; 02-11-2006, 08:13 PM.

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      Colleague Abenheim's postcriptum most deserved of a close reading. Thanks for everyone's input on this thread. BB

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        I have a question, I read all these percentages people come up with,90% 60% etc. How many are we talking about that we come up with a percentage on? Two caps, Three? I have not noticed any dealer site averaging two color piped caps a month, rarely even one white piped cap.
        Winklers site started with several caps both white and color piped, some of the same caps it had three years ago are still there, the rest have all sold at some point. I havent seen any new ones added, nor have I on any of the other sites, so I am wondering is this fact or just collector banter that usually ingrains doubt into anyones mind when it is read by a new collector. I listened to this by some of the highest regarded authorities on the subjects when I was buying tunics, "real ones are rare as hens teeth", "Beware of Winkler" etc. etc. I examined no fewer than 5 tunics from Winkler and found absolutely nothing wrong with them not one hint of evil doing except a couple were in mint condition.Bob Hritz owns an example that he also found no fault with. Yet even with that hands on experience I could find a naysayer in every corner ready to condemn them for whence they came. Stories of tailors etc.who mustve been so good not one stitch of post war material was used.Despite the naysayers the tunics all reside in new and old collections and no one has contacted me to complain of my selling them a fake.There are Frankenstein tunics and caps galore, but I urge caution at making estimates of how many of anything exists out there.What really is puzzling as well is that a some dealers who sell the real frankenstein items at top dollar get the highest praise by the very best in the hobby and cant be discussed on a forum because they throw hissy fits and threaten lawsuits and blacklist you, not to mention the crony club will jump to thier defense on what great guys they are.
        Last edited by John Pic; 02-11-2006, 11:33 PM.

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          John - I was not referring to a single dealer, but rather combined sales on over 25 militaria sites I visit regularly.

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            Thats what Im saying Bruce I visit quite a few sites every day and dont see Color piped or even white piped hats added very often at all except for one site that gets SS items galore but very obvious ones.

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              John - Please contact me privately for numerous examples of branch-piped visors for sale currently on many websites; these sell regularly, and new ones are shown all the time. While I only visit 25+ sites regularly, there are 40+ sites out there that traffic in this stuff everyday, which I visit weekly if not more often. Trust me - staggering sums have been spent on branch-piped caps - I estimate over 200K during the last 19 months. It's my thing, and I do this every night. This is a major rip-off field. I will be happy to share data with members privately. BB

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                John - I should correct my reply - certainly not all 40+ sites offer branch-piped visors regularly! But there are many that do, and they apparently sell. Contact me for further info.

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                  confused

                  hello all, ive read all the thread today its very interesting indeed, just a question please, the external material used on visors should run straight down on one side and to a 45 degree angle on the other, is this always true on all ss visors? did private purchase visors have the same trate? and did heer visors differ in this way. sorry for all the questions, please inform the uneducated {me} regards phil.

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                    Nice photo

                    Press photo of Erwin Meierdrees wearing his branch piped visor (green piping?) in late 1943.
                    Attached Files

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                      Kein Wunder

                      Originally posted by BenVK
                      Press photo of Erwin Meierdrees wearing his branch piped visor (green piping?) in late 1943.

                      Kein Wunder! The skeptic would say he got the cap in the 1940 phase in which these were allowed. But, a cap was supposed to last for two years, and who can really say? I have since seen the 1940 Kleiderkasse catalog, under date of November of the same year, and the catalog seems to make no allowance whatsoever for Waffenfarbe, be it in caps or shoulder boards. The latter does not make sense, does it, since the Waffenfarbe on the shoulder boards endured, even if it was proscribed for headwear. The document is intriguing, also, for its encyclopaedic description of suspenders, garters, and sleeve protectors, whereby the text has nothing to say about many of the themes that intrigue us. I shall include the address of the place in Berlin. Maybe someone can ask them when next in the capital city.

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                        I believe Erwin Meierdress' waffenfarben was red for artillery. In one of the reference books it shows him in a StuG jacket with double skull collar tabs. He has his arm in a sling and is with two other officers. The caption with the picture states that his cap has red waffenfarben.

                        Many of these caps that were purchased during the authorized 8-month period in 1940 in fact kept wearing them until the end of the war for the most part. There is no doubt about that.

                        Bob

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                          I Agree That Those Who Had Branch Piped Hats Likely Wore Them Unitl They Wore Out. Of Those, Likely The Majority Were Kept At Home And Not Worn In Combat. I Wonder What, If Any, Impact This Thread Will Have On The Future Sales Of These Items.
                          Bob

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                            Again, I thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. What impact it may have on future sales is unknown, but I will update current information on the 40+ militaria sites I try to visit twice a week - sales, or at least apparent sales, of purported branch-piped SS visors approach those of white-piped examples (4.1/5 ratio) over the past 21 mos., without regard to originality. Prices - colored caps average no more than 10% premium to white-piped EM, and often less than true examples; no reliable officer cap data. I doubt any of these colored-waffenfarbe examples would pass muster on this site (my arm's length opinion); hence, I conclude that our comrades have mis-spent more than 180K, save Dame Fortune. As I have noted, this is the biggest rip-off field in German militaria collecting - hardly surprising.

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                              I think you'll see a fair number of camouflaged field caps too, with and without camouflaged and other insignia. Another sad state of affairs.

                              Bob

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                                ss piping

                                sorry to keep reviving this thread but can anyone please answer my previous question on the material, did i explain it correctly? many thanks phil.

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