Announcement

At the outset, let me say that the assertion that these caps were worn solely for six or eight months is a red herring, no pun intended. I do not have an image to post, but I shall cite from a book I bought in Vienna this week that has some bearing on this issue, however indirect. The work is that of Schlicht and Kraus on the Uniforms of the Reichswehr, published by Stefan Rest in Vienna, whom I have met en passant. The ISBN 3902526009 and Rest's Verlag is at www.militaria.at . Rest has also published wonderful volumes on the K.u.K. army, as well as a work on the German uniforms of the era 1914-1918 which is outstanding. The Reichswehr book is surely the finest one I have ever seen on military regalia of any kind, and puts the Schiffer books as well as the Bender books quite to shame. Schlicht's work should be known to some via Bender, and Kraus is the director of the Bavarian Army Museum in Ingolstadt, which had and has one of the leading collections of militaria in Germany, together with the collections in the Berlin Zeughaus and the Badenese Rastatt Museum. The latter contained the remnants of the Prussian and Baden military museums of their day. The Reichswehr book has value to collectors of SS uniforms, as the work at hand illustrates uniforms of the era 1918-1935 in a manner that is truly extraordinary, in the sense of the citation of the relevant regulations, as well as very detailed colored images of the objects themselves. This interpretation is done to the highest standard, and suffers from none of the random-ness and amateurism that so afflicts most of the literature on regalia. That is, a cap, with no text via explanation, or some modicum of research. In the work at hand, the authors have left no stone unturned.

There is also less of the glamor collector/ glamor dealer cult of personality here. The Ingolstadt museum was a repository for the official Proben (i.e. examples/patterns &c.) and most of the work illustrates these in the first instance, and less material drawn solely from some clique of glamor collectors with vested interests. Scholarship profits as a result, I dare say. (addendum: I notice that Rest asserts that Hermann Historica helped to publish the volume, and I shall leave to others whether this fact aids the truth or harms it, but I did not see any piece in the illustrations that struck me as fake or put together...others may know more than I do....)

P124 of said work contains a list of non-regulation items of clothing, as well as contraventions of practice. The authors point out that this list of trespasses reflects what was ACTUALLY WORN, versus what was prescribed in the regulations. Commanders were repeatedly enjoined to forbid and even punish such violations, but, by dint of the frequency with which they received such warnings over the years, the evidence here rather indicates that somewhat of a laissez faire attitude operated in the post-1918 heir to the Prussian army---a legacy of the war and surely of a common sense spirit about matters of military life. The list of forbidden, but nonetheless frequently encountered, even legion examples of Eigenmaechtigkeit included: a.) buttons of glossy finish with or w/mo pebbling vs. the matte variety; b.) narrow NCO shoulder boards that appear to be those of an officer; c.) violations with the finish of Tressen on the Mantel (glossy versus matte); Tunics with patch side pockets as well as overall tailoring in dark green textiles vs. field grey; tunic and Mantel collars made from black-green textiles versus field grey badge cloth; Hosen in field grey vs. slate grey; piping on caps, tunics and trousers rendered wider than 2 mm; cap visors without the regulation edging, especially in the case of cavalry formations ( I assume these are of leather... vs. Vulkanfiber); belt in the English style with visible stiching, as well as leather covered buckle; Faehnriche in uniform devoid of appropriate Tressen.

Now I would interpret this list thus: plainly, the Reichswehr, altogether more disciplined than the Nazi armed formations to which it believed itself wholly superior, less adhered to dress regulations than the group think, history channel interpretation of Prussian-German arms would indicate. This kind of list reflects what actually happened, versus what the leadership insisted should be the case or what the secondary literature and the collector group think have perpetuated as dogma. Such evidence is important and we need more of it for the SS, actually, which was plainly (despite what you might want to think...) a less cohesive, organic, disciplined entity than the Reichswehr, which was much smaller, more homogeneous and, in its best years (1921-1933) more able to get a grip on things than was the organization in which we are here interested. So, despite all this meine Ehre heisst Treue stuff, I am sure the SS was less disciplined than the regular soldiers---a demonstrated fact which must have also applied to regalia, as well. Just read the SS DAL's as to who was thrown out each year, as well as Himmler's prissy, nattering correspondence on this score in its published version. I was struck with the Schlicht/Kraus book in hand by this list of no-nos, as well as to the degree that the uniforms of the pre-1918 era, that is the 2d Reich (alte Armeen) were also worn in the Reichswehr for years after 1919. The above little screed does not answer the crucial, endless question directly, but it surely offers context and insight into an issue that suffers from far too much dogmatism and anachronism. This being said, though, most caps I have seen with colored piping are fake, but this fact speaks to the present and rather less to the past.

Hello,
I totally agree with our colleague Mr. Abenheim base on his research found in “Uniforms of the Reichswehr” that the uniform regulations were not strictly enforced or of no concern to soldiers. Leadership was more concern with other important issues such as keeping the soldiers fighting spirit high and achieving the task than restricting the usage of non-regulation insignia. As everybody in this forum knows there is also lots of period picture evidence illustrating Waffen-SS color pipe visors being worn past the regulation period.
All this matter in regards to the rarity and the wear of Waffen-SS color pipe visors has already been discuss in this forum as well as others over an over. Yes, Waffen-SS color pipe visors are rare but so is everything that is SS. Unfortunately the market has been flooded with reproductions and pre-assembled items that almost every SS item is viewed with skepticism among us collectors. However, in spite of the outcome you can still find original rare Waffen-SS white pipe or color pipe visors at a reasonable price.
I have an NCO Panzer Waffen-SS pink pipe visor in my collection. IMO an original item base on all the research and analysis that I’ve done to it. It is not pre-assembled so-called “Frankenstein” or a highly reproduced item. Everything is tight and original from the Deschler SS headgear insignia to the pink pipe. A description has been listed in my web site: http://axis101.bizland.com/PzVisor1.htm
and has been discuss a long time ago in the Uniform-SS forum of the Daggers Forum.

Below is a picture illustration of it.

Cheers
Rene Chavez
Http://axis101.bizland.com

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**TonyS** · 01-07-2006, 07:21 PM

Rene,

No offence intended and I really hate to say it, but I think the insignia are repros. The appear to be those "feinzink" specials peculiar to that seller.

What do other members think?

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SSPanzerVisor04.jpg (25.4 KB, 868 views)

**TonyS** · 01-07-2006, 07:22 PM

the eagle

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SSPanzerVisor05.jpg (25.2 KB, 869 views)

**Rene Chavez** · 01-07-2006, 08:13 PM

No problem Tony that is why we are here for but I am confident that at least the skull is original. I have some "Deschler" TK in my collection and it matches. You can see them already posted in my web site.

Cheers
Rene Chavez
Http://axis.bizland.com

**SScollector** · 01-08-2006, 09:26 PM

Hi Guys!

I'm afraid Tony is correct. Both, the skull and the eagle above are repros.
The skull is one of the better repros, but still a well known fake.
Sadly, I have seen these on several visors at shows.
Anyway, if you can post some good close-ups of the front and back,
I will point out some of the problems.

Best,
Chris

**ReichsHeini** · 01-09-2006, 08:37 AM

Everything is tight and original from the Deschler SS headgear insignia to the pink pipe.

That does appear to be a fake skull and eagle. Did this cap come from Winkler?

**Rene Chavez** · 01-09-2006, 11:49 AM

Gentlemen thank you for your opinions on the insignia.
Yes it came from Winkler and we all know how he has a mixture of originals with repros.

Chris I thought that you gave it a thumbs up via e-mail a while back on the TK but weren't sure on the eagle.
You indicated well known repros......is there an example of these repros?

The only way for me to tell if the insignia is original or not is to see the reverse but as indicated by just comparing the front-side of the TK to my other TK's it looks good.
I have had a mixture of responses in regards to the visor fortunately it has been on the positive side with believe or not some offers so I guess only time will tell.

Rene Chavez
Http://axis101@bizland.com

**SScollector** · 01-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Hi Rene!

Are you sure that this is the same visor that I looked at?
I remember looking at some of your items, but I don't remember this one.
However, I wouldn't say that I didn't, as it has been a while, but regardless, these insignia are absolutely repros, 100%, and I can easily tell them from the front. Yes, there have been several of these type repros posted on other forums in the past and I pointed out the flaws back then, but I haven't seen one in while and this forum is the only forum that I have been on, for the past few months.
Anyway, as for the visor itself, I have not a clue, but I wish you the best.

Best, Chris

**Rene Chavez** · 01-09-2006, 03:37 PM

Hi Chris,
yes this was the one you saw but it was a long time ago. Anyway I trust your judgement so I leave at that.

Rene Chavez
Http://axis101@bizland.com

**GN58** · 01-11-2006, 11:08 AM

499/41

Now I am ready to post the insigna of my KRAFTFAHRER visor.
(...and others I have (m1/52 and m1/72-eagle).
Cheers.
GN

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499 und 52.jpg (37.0 KB, 849 views)

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