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Enigma: Tailor made LW officer tunic in field grey material

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    #46
    Mike,

    I did not care for the tab sewing when you first showed the photos. Your subsequent photos cleared up any misgivings I had. Number one, the photos are very clear and show all the details which is what was needed, at least for me. In hand is always better of course.

    The technique this tailor/seamstress was using was the hidden thread method where the stitching will not show from the front on tabs with piping of any type. That is also a sign of quality tailoring in my opinion. The stitches are placed in between the tab body and the wire piping catching the hand stitching the piping is attached with, hence the use of tiny machine stitches with this method. The only thing that makes it look odd is that the maker had a hard time keeping their needle in the groove. Perhaps an older tailor or assistant did this, as it is often hard to see when stitching white thread on white to older eyes (I know a lot of quilters). That would explain the stitching wandering from the groove to the tab body and back several times. It also makes it look a little wacky on the backside as it wanders due to their continual correcting.

    Nice tunic, decent quality tailoring, looks right on from the new pics provided.

    Richard

    EXAMPLES:
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Richard P; 12-14-2010, 04:06 AM.

    Comment

      #47
      Examples 2:
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #48
        Originally posted by TimoJ View Post
        Look at the photos in the back of Brian Davis' LW Uniforms book Vol 2.

        There is a very odd picture of a fellow in a similar tunic with what appears to be SS collar tabs and shoulder boards. All with an LW eagle on his chest.

        Has anyone ever explained that or figured out the organisation?

        Timo
        That was not a special organisation. The soldier is wearing the typical first pattern boards and collar tabs for a LW Sonderführer "B".
        I think Brian Davis didn't know anything about LW-Beamte, LW-Beamte a.K. or LW-Sonderführer as he wrote his book.

        All the best,
        Andreas

        Comment

          #49
          Nice, interesting tunic Mike. Your photos clear up all misgivings I had. This leads to the conclusion that you are a better photographer than "you know who"
          Esse Quam Videri

          Comment

            #50
            Thanks gents. Any other opinions?

            And regarding photography I'd be content to just know half as much as Mr Hodgin has forgotten....

            Comment

              #51
              Perhaps of interest -

              I was contacted by the former owner who has seen this thread and did indeed acquire the tunic from The Collectors Guild. He believed the tunic had belonged to Schmalz and commented:

              "...I also owned Wm. Schmalz's wrap around (rock solid Army issue jacket w/ LW HG effects applied). The tunic's chest and waist sizes were same as Schmalz's wrap. I considered it highly likely that the 4-pocket (which was from a different source and was without any provenance) was probably Schmalz's too....he was a wealthy man, married to a princess and was already an Army (panzergrenadier) knights cross holder before being moved to HG. As I recall the jacket was tailored in the garrison town of his Army Pzgren rgt..."

              And I have these remarks from the current owner:

              "The HG was expanded to a division in Nov 42 and at that time a large number of Heer officers and NCOs were transferred to the LW and assigned to the division. Oberst Schmalz was one those officers and was transferred from the 9th Pz Div. If I remember he initially commanded one of the two Pzgren Rgts before assuming command of the division on 16 Apr 44. He was promoted to Generalmajor in May 44. Although the name has been cut out, Vienna was the home garrison of the 9th Pz Div. It is [also] possible that the tunic belonged to some other Oberst in the division."

              Nov. '44 photo of Schmalz wearing a similarly cut four pocket tunic. I would say the garment shown in the thread is not this same tunic - and we can't know if the tunic in the photo is blue or green. I would have always assumed LW blue when viewing a photo like this...
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #52
                Ah,nice tunic.

                There could be 2 scenarios that I can think of.

                1) A Luft officer who preferred green fabric over blue..I really don't see a problem with that.

                2) Tailored for a Heer officer but in a Luftwaffe cut.....The hand sewn Heer breast eagle and collar tabs removed and the shoulder boards left alone....A Luft eagle,collar tabs and collar piping then added.





                Glenn
                "A Man's Got to Know His Limitations"

                Comment

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

                  There could be 2 scenarios that I can think of.

                  1) A Luft officer who preferred green fabric over blue..I really don't see a problem with that.

                  2) Tailored for a Heer officer but in a Luftwaffe cut.....The hand sewn Heer breast eagle and collar tabs removed and the shoulder boards left alone....A Luft eagle,collar tabs and collar piping then added.

                  RE: your suggested scenarios -

                  1) I realize that personal taste often affected a soldier's outward appearance and if this were some foreign made garment I'd be more likely to accept anomalies in color and cut. Instead, I suspect that the fact this garment is in field grey can be attributed to other reason(s), perhaps the same reason that certain LW units wore field grey clothing in the later war years.

                  2) Hmmmm, not sure I can buy that - there is no sign whatever of previous Heer insignia, it would be very difficult for Heer officer tabs to fit on the collar, etc. And have youy ever seen a Heer badged LW officer's tunic, in person or in a period photo? I don't think I have...

                  But thanks for the input!

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Mike Davis View Post
                    RE: your suggested scenarios -

                    1) I realize that personal taste often affected a soldier's outward appearance and if this were some foreign made garment I'd be more likely to accept anomalies in color and cut. Instead, I suspect that the fact this garment is in field grey can be attributed to other reason(s), perhaps the same reason that certain LW units wore field grey clothing in the later war years.

                    2) Hmmmm, not sure I can buy that - there is no sign whatever of previous Heer insignia, it would be very difficult for Heer officer tabs to fit on the collar, etc. And have youy ever seen a Heer badged LW officer's tunic, in person or in a period photo? I don't think I have...

                    But thanks for the input!


                    Hello Mike,

                    #1..Either personal taste or as you mention,perhaps a unit that used field grey or perhaps even the only fabric type that was available to the tailor at time of manufacture.

                    #2..How about a different scenario then...How about W-SS tabs?.. Have never seen a Heer badged Luft officers tunic in person or in period photos but that really means nothing...I think there are a lot of things we have not seen.



                    Glenn
                    "A Man's Got to Know His Limitations"

                    Comment

                      #55
                      Does anyone know exactly when these Feldgrau M43 tunics with LW eagle and HG CTs were first issued?
                      http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...Feldgrau+tunic

                      If it was in 1943 or early 1944, then the Oberst tunic discussed here does not seem to be so odd.

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post
                        Hello Mike,

                        #1..Either personal taste or as you mention,perhaps a unit that used field grey or perhaps even the only fabric type that was available to the tailor at time of manufacture.

                        #2..How about a different scenario then...How about W-SS tabs?.. Have never seen a Heer badged Luft officers tunic in person or in period photos but that really means nothing...I think there are a lot of things we have not seen.



                        Glenn
                        I certainly agree with your underlined words - and I strongly believe the solution to this riddle is attributable to use by special purpose LW units.

                        Comment

                          #57
                          Nice tunic Mike! Curious if there is any sign of a cloth DKiG having been sewn on the pocket? Looks almost like it in your photo!
                          Kevin

                          Comment

                            #58
                            Originally posted by WEISNER View Post
                            Nice tunic Mike! Curious if there is any sign of a cloth DKiG having been sewn on the pocket? Looks almost like it in your photo!
                            Kevin
                            Kevin, here is a quick shot from a pocket camera - I see no evidence of a badge having been mounted here...
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #59
                              I can see why he might have preferred this tunic because it's a REAL LOOKER!

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Mike Davis View Post
                                Kevin, here is a quick shot from a pocket camera - I see no evidence of a badge having been mounted here...
                                Oh well... Man that is a Killer tunic!
                                Kev

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