NCO Career Insignia

[Norm F]

John, I assume what you call a "gun captain" is the equivalent of a Stückmeister according to your Bundesmarine friend?

But then I don't understand why Stückmeister is translated as "Artificer" in Angolia/Schlicht? The dictionary definition of Artificer is "a skilled mechanic in the armed forces" - very different from the description above?

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

No idea. Maybe my friend is wrong or Angolia is wrong or the interpretation of the word is wrong. I will try another source.

John

[Norm F]

No idea. Maybe my friend is wrong or Angolia is wrong or the interpretation of the word is wrong. I will try another source.

John

I suspect Angolia/Schlicht is wrong and your friend is right.

Here's a website in German defining the Stückmeister, and when I use Google translate on it, it does seem to be describing a Gunner's career.

http://kaiserliche.marineuniformen.d...5fbe19fa9ba42e

Also that better matches the symbol of a flaming shell which doesn't at all fit with a skilled repairman's job.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Remember "gun captain" is a position, not a rating or a rank.

John

[Norm F]

Remember "gun captain" is a position, not a rating or a rank.

John

So from your friend's description it sounds like an Oberstückmeister rating (usually at a rank of Oberfeldwebel) generally acted more like a Turret Officer than a Gun Captain since he was in charge of more than one gun, while the Geschützführer (probably at a junior NCO rank (e.g. Obermaat) with a specialty patch of the red flaming shell over 1 to 3 red chevrons) occupied the position equivalent to gun captain.

Cheers.
---Norm

[John R.]

So from your friend's description it sounds like an Oberstückmeister rating (usually at a rank of Oberfeldwebel) generally acted more like a Turret Officer than a Gun Captain since he was in charge of more than one gun, while the Geschützführer (probably at a junior NCO rank (e.g. Obermaat) with a specialty patch of the red flaming shell over 1 to 3 red chevrons) occupied the position equivalent to gun captain.

Cheers.
---Norm

Turret Captain, not Turret Officer. The Turret Officer is a commissioned officer who someday will be a Department Head, like the Weapons Officer, then Executive Officer, then Captain.

Turret Captain is in charge of the Gun Captains in a big turret but in secondary batteries, even if it is a two gun secondary battery, there is only the Gun Captain and no Turret Captain.

John

[Norm F]

Hi John,

This is great information. And that Youtube video link you gave that shows the complexity and manning of a gun turret is fascinating.
So far, does this sound like a good summary?

1) Maat and Obermaat (only 2 classes instead of 3 like in the U.S.) = Petty Officer 1st, 2nd and 3rd class
2) Feldwebel = Chief Petty Officer
3) Oberfeldwebel = Senior Chief Petty Officer
4) Stückmeister or Oberstückmeister = Feldwebel or Oberfeldwebel (Chief Petty Officer or Senior Chief Petty Officer) acting as a Turret Captain
5) Geschützführer = Maat or Obermaat (Petty Officer 1st, 2nd or 3rd class) acting as Gun Captain
6) Matrosengefreiter or Seaman of various grades performed the numerous actions required to operate the guns

And the symbol of the single non-winged flaming shell appears on the appropriate career insignia and specialty badges of those involved.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Recognizing that we are guessing here, your list looks like it makes sense to me.

John

[RonR]

Bullion Boatswain......



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[RonR]

Thanks to germanpolice, this one is identified as "Kraftfahrer" (motor driver) 33-45.......


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[John R.]

Oberstückmeister

I asked someone far more knowledgeable than me regarding German gunnery of the WW2 period. Here is what he said in a recent email:

Hi John,

Somehow I missed this email and apologize for the long delay. In the German armed forces the rank you inquire about would translate more closely to the British artillery Artificer rather than the gun captain in the USN which had much broader duties.

[m16287]

John,

Terrific listing!

Would you know which Career Sleeve Insignia the KM equivalent of a USN Fire Controlman would have had? I believe he would have had the Range Finder specialty badge.

[John R.]

Thanks, I do not have my references with me right now. Maybe Norm knows?

John

[m16287]

Thanks, I do not have my references with me right now. Maybe Norm knows?

John

Norm,

Could you add anything to my inquiry? Any info greatly appreciated!

[Norm F]

Norm,

Could you add anything to my inquiry? Any info greatly appreciated!

Hi m16287,

I was looking through Angolia & Schlicht but I can't find an equivalent career to Fire Controlman, unfortunately.

For my own education, what are their duties and why do you think they would have the Range Finder specialty badge?

Best regards,
---Norm