Announcement

**DougB** · 12-31-2014, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by GAMS1 View Post

Many chin straps came out alone with these CS stamps ? a chin strap is also detachable and could have been added to the helmet in the last 70 years ...

That is the problem with this thread, there is no proof presented despite the repeated photos of clothing and re-enactor pics.

An interesting theory that these are wartime German (SS) helmets but thin circumstantial evidence and wishful thinking does not make it fact. Could be, maybe, probably, might have, possibly are not facts.

Cheers
Doug

**Aries22** · 12-31-2014, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Paul Ba View Post

Genau!

Aires, just post then SELL, SELL, SELL, SELL - all I see ever!

All about $$$, €€€, £££ etc etc etc........ find post war trash, sell as gold!

And what is wrong with this thread ? Did you see then shirt is for sale ? No, I just want to know what it is, because I never see it before...this shirt is really not for sale....

And about yellow helmets....yes I had hundreds of them...and I always said then by my oppinion is war made but some are sure then this is post war, but by my own opinion it is original for sure I do not need to cheat anyone with anything...it seems to me very weak to say then I make this thread for better selling of them, why should I do it when I sell them always like original...and now I have several pieces of them.....but I do no care about it...I only wanted to find true about this helmest and post what I know about them.... but I m sure, everyone can make his own opinion about them from informations here....and this is point of this thread

**BROBS** · 12-31-2014, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

I often wonder the same and the same goes for those who post on here constantly defending questionable items as "just maybe",what if","could very well be" etc.

It seems to me that some posting on these Forums want to keep everyone confused. If no one is expert then everyone is expert, then good becomes bad and bad becomes good. It happens quite often.

I mean,if you have to discuss an item and go on about it for 50 +++ pages without any real proof,why in the Hell would you want to own it?

Glenn

Lights and mirrors and smoke my friend!!!!!
If you can't tell which way is up from down or bad from good then everything they say is good. Regardless of how little proof exists in reality.

It's a financial grab. Plain and simple.

Let's just say they aren't hoping these are SS helmets for the historical value.
-Brian

**DougB** · 12-31-2014, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

I often wonder the same and the same goes for those who post on here constantly defending questionable items as "just maybe",what if","could very well be" etc.

It seems to me that some posting on these Forums want to keep everyone confused. If no one is expert then everyone is expert, then good becomes bad and bad becomes good. It happens quite often.

I mean,if you have to discuss an item and go on about it for 50 +++ pages without any real proof,why in the Hell would you want to own it?

Glenn

**NickG** · 12-31-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Aries22 View Post

And what is wrong with this thread ? I only wanted to find true about this helmest and post what I know about them.... but I m sure, everyone can make his own opinion about them from informations here....and this is point of this thread

Well said! all this greed, conspiracy BS talk, reckless opinions being broadcasted and ulterior motive paranoia being spawned by the naysayer is becoming a joke! (just because they know better and follow the text book rule like its the bible....)
Again Romanian war time refurb helmets don't look Dutch anymore! They look more German, paint, texture, liner...job contracted in Germany!
Romanian textbook look is out the window on those war time refurbs! These Czech-German refurbs were handled outside of Germany!

We just want to get to the bottom of it. Obviously many followers who want to know for sure. At the end of the day we really don't know 100% either way. With a 1946 dated example the time frame has become MUCH MUCH narrower for it to be possibly war time and stamped months later...
even war time RAL paint after all. (left over batches, just like the parts...). For me the door is not shut on that thought process.
So lets keep an open mind and see how the thread develops with facts and keep it classy (not attacking Aries22 etc...!)

Welcome aboard Kangaroo. I know you are in the post war camp and that is fine of course, we need your knowledge to try to settle this
(either way!)!
Here is his post war image!

Attached Files

02xx(6).jpg (38.5 KB, 158 views)

**M35** · 12-31-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post

Hello all
Karl from SVM responded to my e-mail! im gonna call him today and get a first hand account about these helmets! will post ASAP!
Kevin

Kevin, when you talk to Karl be sure to ask him about his Czech connection. I have known Karl for many years and I am pretty sure he used to talk a lot - years ago - about his family roots and connections in Czechoslovakia.

I agree with everyone that nothing has really been proven so far. What I find funny though is that the ones who are dead sure these are post war feel their position HAS been proven when it has not, any more than the wartime supporters have proven their position. I think many of us who follow this are simply interested in the truth, regardless of ulterior motives by some, and I am rather amazed at so many closed minds. At this point, it could go either way and just FEELING they are pre or post 1945 means nothing.

Cheers,
Terry

**DougB** · 12-31-2014, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by M35 View Post

Kevin, when you talk to Karl be sure to ask him about his Czech connection. I have known Karl for many years and I am pretty sure he used to talk a lot - years ago - about his family roots and connections in Czechoslovakia.

I agree with everyone that nothing has really been proven so far. What I find funny though is that the ones who are dead sure these are post war feel their position HAS been proven when it has not, any more than the wartime supporters have proven their position. I think many of us who follow this are simply interested in the truth, regardless of ulterior motives by some, and I am rather amazed at so many closed minds. At this point, it could go either way and just FEELING they are pre or post 1945 means nothing.

Cheers,
Terry

I have tried to keep an open mind Terry, but I think the evidence shown by Radovan is a nail in a coffin so to speak, on the side of them being post-war.

Postwar date stamped chinstraps, a postwar painted Cz emblem with the "RAL Tan" overtop, combined with his deep knowledge of them and his countries past, are for me a smoking gun.

Combine that with qvl helmets, 2 coats of (factory?) tan paint (which one is the RAL color?), mystery domestamps on factory/non-factory helmet, and the "RAL" color clearly matching Warsaw Pact colors as posted by Francis in the GHW2 thread, and no real good reason why they would strip these to the bare metal and repaint, all of this just adds up as unexplainable unless "could be, maybe, possibly" and all the other similar adjectives are used to "explain".

The problem I have had with the thread is these "explanations" were being turned into indisputable fact, which was wrong and from which there has been thankfully a reversal of and thus we are back to "could be, maybe, possibly".

An intelligent collector (and dealer) can use those adjectives to explain any fake or any postwar item as possibly being real.

As Jacques has said, it sows confusion and detracts from the real technicolor facts that debunk the theory (a theory I admit which was interesting).

But after 50+ pages, nothing has been proven to support the theory. That said, as you know I have an open mind to these things and if evidence comes to light to support that I am willing to see it for what it is.

But I can't accept the plethora of "maybes" that have been strung together and with Radovan's posts, in my mind, we have perhaps not a 100% definitive answer to all, but enough for me to say that there is a very high probability (99% in my eyes now) they are post war done.

But I keep the 1% open. But it fills a very tiny spot LOL!

Cheers, best of the New Year to everyone!
Doug

**NickG** · 12-31-2014, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by M35 View Post

Kevin, when you talk to Karl be sure to ask him about his Czech connection. I have known Karl for many years and I am pretty sure he used to talk a lot - years ago - about his family roots and connections in Czechoslovakia.

I agree with everyone that nothing has really been proven so far. What I find funny though is that the ones who are dead sure these are post war feel their position HAS been proven when it has not, any more than the wartime supporters have proven their position. I think many of us who follow this are simply interested in the truth, regardless of ulterior motives by some, and I am rather amazed at so many closed minds. At this point, it could go either way and just FEELING they are pre or post 1945 means nothing.

Cheers,
Terry

Well said Terrry! AMEN to that!

It is worth digging more!!! Perhaps Karl (a good guy)with his CZ roots can chime in directly or indirectly!
Thanks for the 1% Doug!!!!

**Mr. Hollywood** · 12-31-2014, 12:47 PM

NickG.....LOOK OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a "Chek painted TROPICAL trash can! Found by Aries in the backyard of a Chek resistance fighter!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow its painted the same color as the helmets!!!! OMG!!!!!!

This proves it!!!!!

PS...............its not for sale......just paypal me 500 euros.

**NickG** · 12-31-2014, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Hollywood View Post

NickG.....LOOK OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a "Chek painted TROPICAL trash can! Found by Aries in the backyard of a Chek resistance fighter!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow its painted the same color as the helmets!!!! OMG!!!!!!

This proves it!!!!!

STOP those silly mocking contributions PLEASE... !!! It does not add anything of value to this thread.
Yesterday I already told you to stay on track...no attacks, no silliness no attitudes...I extended a you an olive branch and now this?
Just cut it out.
I have a lot of PM's from people who do not like your attitude. I have always stated I am only interested in the truth which can be either way...
To illustrate that I even posted Kangaroos picture of such helmets being worn post war...so consider me neutral! That is a positive contribution! LEARN FROM IT!!! You are only digging a deeper hole and becoming VERY unlikable!
I really dont care.
AGAIN I don't even own such a helmet. Ulterior motives for defending these??? attacking me, attacking my collection, attacking dealers...other members who are not in your camp REALLY?
Childish behavior. How old are you? So please just stop for the sake of keeping this thread serious!
Who is black belt btw?

and what is "Chek" ? ???(does that spelling reveal your true age?) Just STOP!

**Mr. Hollywood** · 12-31-2014, 01:15 PM

[QUOTE=NickG;6737462]
Childish behavior. How old are you?
Who is black belt btw?
/QUOTE]

Childish.........well ok I accept that my fun post was lost on some......no problem.

I was Blackbelt. It was my former handle on this board years ago. I was not able to recover the user ID so I started this one. I believe we covered this about 20 postings back.

The intent of the trash can was to illustrate that while it is tan in color, its is as irrelevant as B/w photos, and photos of re-enactors.

My age..............42. Not sure why that is relevant to you...but that's cool. Any other personal questions you would like me to address?

I am not in a camp. I simply know what I am talking about. I base my knowledge on TEXT BOOK helmets which allows me the flexibility to determine a pre-war anomaly. The way it is be done by responsible collectors.

The burden of proof is on the persons who are supporters of the pre-war notion. Those of us that don't subscribe to this notion really have nothing to prove. This thread represents a very small percentage of the worlds collectors.

Of the collectors that I associate with both on this board, other boards, and those who are not into internet forums I would say more than 95% agree in the post war theory.

I am happy to sit back, and now enjoy the sideshow that will ensue trying to prove these helmets as pre-war.

Please ensure that any "fact, or interpretation of fact" is posted with source information that can be independently verified. We will see how many more pages will be needed before its over.

**NickG** · 12-31-2014, 01:24 PM

OK "Lucky Fez"! Stay on track! (so many handles were used....???speaking of ulterior motives???)
and PLEASE don't bother explaining the reasons for multiple ID's here......as it has nothing to do with this thread!
Look forward to meaningful contributions and/or sit back and enjoy the ride! we can all learn! whichever way it swings!!!

Thanks! (from a 5 percent-er!)

**M35** · 12-31-2014, 01:37 PM

Interesting thoughts, and Doug I especially appreciate your comments.

As far as the 1946 dated chinstrap, I have seen these Czech marked straps before, usually loose. Did the Czechs date stamp things like that when they put the item in their inventory? Or when pieces and parts were assembled? Or when the item was re-issued to their own people? Or??

As far as that helmet with the Czech emblem under the paint, that doesn't really fit into the discussion other than to say it is a similar color tan. It is obviously NOT one of these tan refurbs.

What do we really know about bvl/qvl helmets? Very little. We don't know where they were made for sure, or by whom, or when they were first made. 1943? 1944? 1945?

Hopefully we will continue to learn. The two good things that have come from this discussion are that the Egypt theory seems to be dead, and people are talking and digging into the history of these. I'll continue to sit firmly on the fence for now.

Cheers,
Terry

**Mr. Hollywood** · 12-31-2014, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by NickG View Post

OK "Lucky Fez"! Stay on track! (so many handles were used....??? ulterior motive???)
and PLEASE don't bother explaining the reasons for multiple ID's here......as it has nothing to do with this thread!
Look forward to meaningful contributions and/or sit back and enjoy the ride! we can all learn! whichever way it swings!!!

Thanks! (from a 5 percent-er!)

Your right I did have that handle. Its been years sorry. I chose it due to my Handschar studies at the time. That was a cool handle. Oh well. Handle changing is what happens when you move, lose track of info over time and don't visit sites too often.

Guess that makes me a criminal..........you got me sheriff.

**GAMS1** · 12-31-2014, 01:44 PM

Nice and rare picture of post war CS uniformed soldiers wearing german helmets ...
In which colour ? certainly not the famous RAL colour which is a lot more clear !
The only CS troops post war wearing german reissued helmets were the border guards and eventually reservists , as already said , many foreign helmets of every kind were stocked in the CS huge warsaw pact stocks !
They are certainly of the darker olive colour used by the warsaw pact , and many of these repainted helmets came on the market at the same time , with some still having the old german paint under the olive colour and really worn , not unissued .
Sorry not a proof of these helmets being postwar repainted and used !
The CS "resistance"helmet with a yellowish colour on it , added later post war then , is also not to be confused with the brand new ones we are talking about : the paint is totally different and not that matt as the one presented on this thread .
It has been done locally and not in an industrial way .
Sand colour was never a colour intended for the CS army,never .Olive green yes !
At the same period i saw also some FJ helmets overpainted in olive green , used with CS paratroopers until 48 to match their KAKI uniforms, with FJ jump smocks first and then proper camo uniforms .
Accusing Aries22 to make money with these helmets is also a lazy explanation ? These helmets have been in bulk on the West European market at a certain point ( 90's ) but have almost disappeared now . But you can find some from time to time where they were stocked in 45 , Central Europe ! And they don't cost a fortune , sold like what they are : late war Süd Front unissued Helmets !
Exactly the same price as M42 late war green helmets,not more ...
When you see the price of the only the parts in that condition :
liner,straps and pot ?You are already with the price they cost !
What a sad speculation to accuse people to make money so simply ...
I disagree with the NO saying that the YES or MAY BE didn't bring any facts or proofs , this thread is full of it !
Testimonies of vet , pictures of vet,localization of the uniform logistic , pictures of 45 CS RG in Prag wearing this Süd Front logistic ...what else ?
By the way the Polizei division went down to Greece in 44 , not in 43 as stated .
Nevertheless a happy new year to everybody and please stay cool in a discussion ,arguing brings nothing !
Nick

Announcement

My new DAK helmets

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread