Questionable Schulterklappen, Tropenuniform on the E-Stand ?

[OSS]

These are the ones which are too short to be for an overcoat. Possibly they were meant for a previously unknown woolen tropical tunic.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Arty

Think you have possibly misunderstood ? It is not your coat straps that are in doubt but the tunic straps with the unusual tongue material not seen before on tropical straps. This is mentioned in your thread.

[Tim O'Keefe]

This one looks to be copper brown recon on my monitor. And it looks to be a good one,

Chris

Yes thats what i thought also on first impressions.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello Tim,

where have you got this information from Tim that one of the sets of shoulder straps issued, was for the shirt ?

Chris

Went back and found the info in Dal's book page # 143.

"There was no special shoulderstrap made specifically for the shirt and they were issued with the same style of shoulderstrap worn on the tunic."

Would say that is a little inconclusive. He does mention the straps were issued by the Quartermaster. So maybe it was simply...
Here's two sets of tunic/shirt straps and one for your overcoat, dont lose them.?

[Tim O'Keefe]

Tim asked me to share my opinions on these and I will do so. They are my "opinions" for what they are worth depending on your perspective concerning these pieces. There just too many questions and the negative aspects outweigh the positive for me.


The Tropen Nebel strap appeared some months ago on the MFF. At first, I thought it might be a good piece. Then the Kav/A.A. pair appeared; so, you have a rare single and a pair of enlisted straps. The pair sells for what I would consider to be a suspiciously low price. You just do not see that many enlisted pairs of tropical straps for sale and they get snatched up immediately. The price is usually commensurate with the rarity.


The Tropen Nebel strap has been for sale for a while and not sold, why? Now, you have similar straps appear and several having the NCO tresse loop "embellishment".


With the price commanded for these pieces it is always wise to be cautious. You see people getting hung with dubious pieces everyday in this hobby. The insignia aspect is no different. If you can perfect a copy it certainly can be lucrative.


When the Kav. A.A. pair and Nebel single were first were listed, I showed the pictures to three other collectors, whose opinion I trusted and they all considered them dubious. Now you have two more long time collectors, in OSS and Pauke, casting doubts.

Thanks Glen for yout thoughts. Know we are told to judge the item not anything else. But believe it is not as simple as that. The added tresse, price, tongue materials, & the seller himself, all contribute in the evaluation. We have been chatting about these straps almost two months now. The collectors that you and i have shared information with are some of the Top Collector/Authors in the hobby. All have agreed and it is a pleasure to learn from each of them

[Tim O'Keefe]

I agree 100%...

Good to hear from you Han's, the seller has had many good items in the past.

[Tim O'Keefe]

As many of you know, I collect shoulder straps / boards of all branches of the Heer.
(including DAK/Tropical). There are MANY variations of shoulder strap construction,
some of which are so "non-standard" that they're often labeled "reproduction".
There are also many field modified "expedient" straps that are crude, ugly, and
also considered "repros".
Those of us that recall the "Vet Lots" we obtained in the 60's - 70's, many "oddball" pieces were included. (Modified, field made, etc.)
Today, those same vet acquired pieces who be viewed with a jaundiced eye and
labeled as "reproduction" or "not for my collection".
Many collectors here on WAF are quick to tender "opinions" which are, frankly,
of no value.
Collectors should cultivate a collecting friendship with a fellow collector who is known for his knowledge of that particular area of collecting.
This, and attending as many militaria shows (like the SOS) as possible , buying worthwhile reference books, and visiting the many websites are all recommended.
Knowledge is power! Learn your topic!
Regarding these tropical straps offered here by Sprachfuehrer, I am NOT CONVINCED that they are all reproductions. I have almost a complete set of all the Waffenfarben used on DAK / Tropical straps (several vet aquired decades ago)
and would have to check them against these offered by Sprachfuehrer.
Hence "the jury is out" on these straps here on Long Island!

Great to hear from you Chris. Agree am a newbie and have only been collecting for 35 years. Before the WAF was lucky to study with one of the most knowledgable collectors of DAK items for many years. Research is king.
Good to know you think some of the straps have a chance contrary to the concensus. Do appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts as you are another "go to" guy for shoulderstraps here on the WAF.

[Tim O'Keefe]

These are the ones which are too short to be for an overcoat. Possibly they were meant for a previously unknown woolen tropical tunic.

Thanks ! Almost fell off of my chair. Maybe the M44 tropical tunic

[Stive]

As many of you know, I collect shoulder straps / boards of all branches of the Heer.
(including DAK/Tropical). There are MANY variations of shoulder strap construction,
some of which are so "non-standard" that they're often labeled "reproduction".
There are also many field modified "expedient" straps that are crude, ugly, and
also considered "repros".
Those of us that recall the "Vet Lots" we obtained in the 60's - 70's, many "oddball" pieces were included. (Modified, field made, etc.)
Today, those same vet acquired pieces who be viewed with a jaundiced eye and
labeled as "reproduction" or "not for my collection".
Many collectors here on WAF are quick to tender "opinions" which are, frankly,
of no value.
Collectors should cultivate a collecting friendship with a fellow collector who is known for his knowledge of that particular area of collecting.
This, and attending as many militaria shows (like the SOS) as possible , buying worthwhile reference books, and visiting the many websites are all recommended.
Knowledge is power! Learn your topic!
Regarding these tropical straps offered here by Sprachfuehrer, I am NOT CONVINCED that they are all reproductions. I have almost a complete set of all the Waffenfarben used on DAK / Tropical straps (several vet aquired decades ago)
and would have to check them against these offered by Sprachfuehrer.
Hence "the jury is out" on these straps here on Long Island!

Very correct words! I collect also many years shoulder straps and I can draw conclusions that a variety Heer shoulder strap very big and this subject of collecting demands continuous studying.
P/S. I am ready to take the tropical shoulder straps shown here from Sprachfuehrer in a collection, on condition of some discounts for the price

[Sprachfuehrer]

Very correct words! I collect also many years shoulder straps and I can draw conclusions that a variety Heer shoulder strap very big and this subject of collecting demands continuous studying.
P/S. I am ready to take the tropical shoulder straps shown here from Sprachfuehrer in a collection, on condition of some discounts for the price

Sorry, Stive,
Hier - keine Effekte mehr zu verkaufen
(nur Leder, FOB Hamburg ))

[Schulterklappen]

Perspective

I appreciate your opinion and perspective.


As to "judge the item only", to me there are subjective concerns. Over the years, especially with dealers and collectors who deal I have learned to look what else is being sold and other patterns.

I very much respect what you have posted here Schulterklappen. Add to this the straps you have handled, your experience and opinion in regard to the matter. Equally I respect the opinion and experience of the other collectors who you mention in this post.


However, these wise words that Ben posted on a couple of other threads should be added to this thread because they are a reality of the situation;




I could not have summed it up better myself and I will add one more point to this, always get two opinions from at least two different quarters of the square.


That is exactly what I will be doing, I am going to ask some other collectors who have handled or documented tropical straps for their opinions and experience. They may or may not be prepared to make a judgement based on computer images alone. Sometimes they declare that the final decision can only be made by holding the tropical strap in hand and putting it side by side with known originals.

I am not saying that the "Tropen Nebel strap" which looks copper brown piping on my monitor or the Golden yellow piped straps are good or bad. All I am saying is that I am going to take my time, compare with othe tropical boards I already have and consult with others in regard to what they have in their collections or have seen/ experienced.

Until I have done this, I am not going to declare the Nebel/ Recon straps good or bad. I hope others would also take the time to do this before making a judgement,

Chris

p.s. there is no such thing as a perfect copy. If a copy is perfect, how do you know it is a copy ? Copies always have red flags some which that give them away as bad. Also keep in mind that there are some originals, quality of original manufacture and certain makers that are instantly recognised by collectors and preferred over others.

[Schulterklappen]

Frage ?

Moin an alle
Was kann hier sagen...
Wenn ich jemandem Schaden angerichtet habe, zahle ich das Geld zurück
Wie es anständig und üblich ist
An manche Redner:
Die Meinung von Fachleuten nehme ich in Anspruch
Aber ihre Anschuldigungen gehen direkt ins Eimer
Die Effekte sind ordnungsgemäss gekauft
Ich habe Rechnungen, ich kenne den Dealer und den Sammler
Hier ist kein Gerichtshof und sie sind keine Geschworene

translate.eu

Hello to all
What can say here...
If I've hurt someone, I will pay back the money
How it is decent and common
To some speakers:
I take the opinion of professionals in claim
But their accusations to go directly into the bucket
The effects are properly purchased
I got bills, I know the dealer and the collector
This is not a court and they are no jury

Frage: Alle die Schulterklappen und Schulterstuecke, du hast zu verkaufen MFF, eBay, und WAF sind 100% original und hat kein Zifferen, Buchstaben, oder Nummeren adderien?

Question: All of the shoulder straps that you have for sale on MFF, eBay, and the WAF are 100% original and have had no cyphers, letters, or numbers added?

[Sprachfuehrer]

Question: All of the shoulder straps that you have for sale on MFF, eBay, and the WAF are 100% original and have had no cyphers, letters, or numbers added?

Ein davon ist unverändert

[Sprachfuehrer]

Ein davon ist unverändert

[Schulterklappen]

"Stadeum"

Bist du auch eBay Verkäufer "Stadeum"?

Are you also eBay seller "Stadeum"?


"Nachrichten-Aufklärung "?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Schulte...pKa:rk:83:pf:0


"Heeres Sportschule"
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Schulterstuc...KRo:rk:94:pf:0

The Army Sport School boards and straps are one of the rarest of Heer pieces. I have a cypher only, on a white metal sample board, and it is a one piece cypher not two separate "S"s.