Shoulder Board Cypher Question

[Tom Pearcy]

Question: Was a Gothic upper case "Z" ever worn on shoulder boards/straps, and if so, what for?

[OSS]

Possibly for dentist (Zahnarzt).

[pauke]

z

The only use of the letter "Z" I have ever seen is on dental medical officer's shoulder board, but it is a stylized "Z" and not an actual gothic "Z".

[Tom Pearcy]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=69690&page=74

post #1109

[OSS]

Mr. Suter suggests that a a "Z" was used with pink Waffenfarbe for Zerstorer, I cannot confirm this. I have seen a "Z" used on school straps for the signals school at Zerbst.

[pauke]

z

The listing of the "Z" for anti-tank must be either a town name for a school location as OSS suggests or something unrelated to AT units as the term "Zerstoerer" (destroyer) is never used as an AT unit descriptor in the Wehrmacht, only Panzerabwehr or Panzerjaeger.

[Tom Pearcy]

Panzer-Zerstörer-Bataillon 486

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=767914


Panzer-Zerstörer-Bataillon

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21744

[pauke]

Pz. Zerstoerer

Thanks for the information. Sounds like the name for a late-war ad hoc formation. Have to wonder what a dentist with this unit would be wearing at least in theory.

[Johnny R]

Here is an original larger device. These were also made in a size about half this big which is the kind most often used by Dentists who wore the caduceus and the "z". The second image is not in focus but you can compare the size to an EK II spange.

[OSS]

Have to wonder what a dentist with this unit would be wearing at least in theory.

Perhaps Zz

[OSS]

Perhaps Zz

I believe there was a Tank Destroyer Dental School at Zossen who wore ZZZ on their straps. All kidding aside, there seemed to be less use of cyphers as the war progressed.

[Johnny R]

[Tom Pearcy]

OK....back to reality.

[Johnny R]

The Panzer destroyer units did exist and the designation for the "Z" device is also mentioned in Angolia/Schlicht. There were formed under orders dating to the fall of 1943. Rather than having lots of armored vehicles these were units that had some towed anti-tank guns/motorized AT guns but for the most part consisted of specially trained personnel in anti-tank operations in using panzerschreck teams and panzerfaust with bicycles.

I have the waffenrock for the commander of Panzer Zerstorer Abteilung 156, RKT Hptm. Alfred Hoinka. It is Infantry piped (no "Z") and his service files that indicate he was an infantry officer and was not retrained as PzJag. etc. I suspect these units were formed from Infantry anti-tank companies and Panzerjager units to deal with large Soviet tank breakthroughs.

[Tom Pearcy]

Then what is this upper case Gothic Z for? It was obviously produced. Was it used side by side with a Gothic P for Armored Trains (Panzerzug)? Or did manufacturers of these devices produce examples of every letter in the alphabet and the military picked and chose what and what not to use? Orders were not strictly adhered to when it came to insignia so isn't it possible that some might have chose to wear devices on their shoulder boards that might be out of the norm? What about the uberschube sporting green crossed shovel and pick with unit number.