Panzer Pioneer Black Wrapper II

[Peter v L]

Panzer Pioneer Wrapper

Wrapper history as far as I know it. Approx 12 years ago it was bought by a well known US panzer collector from a dealer in England. he kept it for approx 5 years then asked me if i could sell it in consignment for him which I did. It was then sold to another US panzer collector who also kept it for approx 5 years then he needed money for something else and asked me if I would help him sell it which i did to the current collector living in Sweden. It have not been changed in any way since it was first brought to my knowledge. Sizes on the markings inside the wrapper have been measured against the wrapper itself and they match.

I post all pictures we have made from the wrapper. A good way to discuss the wrapper would be to ask for any additional photos wanted and we post that, after that maybe we can discuss the authenticity of the wrapper alone in a manor where nothing else is discussed then the item alone. No personal issues etc, the item alone. If not I will not comment more about it neither will the current owner.

What is the questions which make some doubt its authenticity, what are pro originality what is against it. It was shown to many US collectors during it´s 10 years in US and got all ohhh´s and ahhh´s at those occasions which naturally means nothing. If you have nothing to add except "i don´t like it" or "I like it" and similar comments which are totally unfruitful for the discussion please don´t post. If you like it or not does not matter, the reason why you do or not does!

I don´t have it with me at the moment, it will be with us again on wednesday so be patient till then for any extra photos requested.

So now let the discussion start

Peter v L

[derka]

maybe some pics of colar reverse, particulary the area where tabs are seewn ?
and of stiching of EKII and Ost rubbons behind ?
derka

[Peter v L]

OK, will be added on wednesday.

P

maybe some pics of colar reverse, particulary the area where tabs are seewn ?
and of stiching of EKII and Ost rubbons behind ?
derka

[Langemark]

Hello Peter,

Did the soldier earn the EKII and Ostfront medal ribbons between two shots ?
Just joking : picture 11 obviously doesn't belong to this promising new thread.

Best, Mark

[derka]

OK, will be added on wednesday.

P

thank you.
and a precision : are skulls magnetic ?
derka

[Peter v L]

Sorry, it is removed now:-)

P

Hello Peter,

Did the soldier earn the EKII and Ostfront medal ribbons between two shots ?
Just joking : picture 11 obviously doesn't belong to this promising new thread.

Best, Mark

[Peter v L]

As far as I remember they are aluminium ones and non magnetic, but will be back about those on wednesday as well

P

thank you.
and a precision : are skulls magnetic ?
derka

[Edward]

Who was the major UK dealer?

[Peter v L]

I can not see that having any bearing to this thread, we said that we should discuss the item and not the people involved in selling and collecting it.

The item have to stand by it self if not it does not matter if God sold it

Peter v L

Who was the major UK dealer?

[Langemark]

Just an observation free of any critic whatsoever :

The collar tabs look as if they were made of the same cloth as the Jacke. Maybe it is just an illusion but I'm more used to see finer badge cloth or Döskin.

Mark

[Peter v L]

I will address that wednesday as well when in hand.

P

Just an observation free of any critic whatsoever :

The collar tabs look as if they were made of the same cloth as the Jacke. Maybe it is just an illusion but I'm more used to see finer badge cloth or Döskin.

Mark

[LRRPS]

It was stated in the other thread that the base wrapper is bad, so perhaps this can be discussed before going into details about the panzer - pi part?


Peter: What's with the handapplied stitching at the bottom front inside?

[Willi Z.]

Is there any wear to what appears to be factory applied Der Spiess tresse?

[Richard P]

It was stated in the other thread that the base wrapper is bad, so perhaps this can be discussed before going into details about the panzer - pi part?


Peter: What's with the handapplied stitching at the bottom front inside?

Perhaps I can answer since Peter won't have this specimen back in hand until Wednesday.

Most all wraps right up until the late war types should have several hand closed areas on them. Of course all wrap collectors know this, as I'm sure Peter does.

Good question by Willi.

Richard

[LRRPS]

Most all wraps right up until the late war types should have several hand closed areas on them. Of course all wrap collectors know this, as I'm sure Peter does.

Richard

Thanks Richard, can't afford to collect wrappers and didn't know this