DAK Tunic

[Tim O'Keefe]

Semantics...It is a beautiful example of a tropical uniform. I would be very proud to display this piece. Congratulations.

Its a mint tunic that never was even worn & sat out the war, let alone was in Afrika....Your logic that any tropical item is a DAK piece is very misleading. Thats like calliing any German item with a swaz an ss item isn't it ?

To lable anything tropical as DAK does a tremendous disservice to the members of the DAK. And it is not factual either. Most tropical equipment was not used in Afrika at all. So how is that DAK ? Oh i forgot, the DAK served in Italy, Russia France, Greece, and the entire Sud Front. Wearin their third pattern tunics and felt tropenhelms made in '43-44....what was i thinkin

[SMP]

A first patern tunic might well have only been worn in Greece, Russia or Italy, etc. So does that make it DAK ? Surely a uniform ( no matter what type ) is only DAK if it can be proved to have been worn in Africa. Calling all first patterns DAK is just as bad by that logic.


Nice tropical combo, BTW !

[afrikasandman]

SMP,

I totally agree with your statement. Hell you could have Himmlers underware but if you can't prove he owned them then they are just another pair of underware. I was simply pointing out that the DAK soldiers wore 1st model trop tunics when they went but that doesn't by any means make all and any 1st model and or some 2nd model tunics DAK by any means. It has to be proven to be DAK and there are some features that tunics that saw service in Africa tend to show. Can we ever really prove that anything we collect is 100% original? Of course not but we judge it based on standards from what we consider to be known originals. Either way useing DAK to describe anything tropical is wrong and it should be correct for accuracy reasons. JMHO. Matt

[NTZ]

I agree with our DAK/tropical experts. Not long ago I put together a “DAK” display. I painstakingly made sure everything was dated 1940-42. Does that make it DAK? NO! It is just “representative” of what would of been found in North Africa. As much as I would like to convince myself some of it seen action in North Africa the odds are well against it. It is like calling a un-attributed Heer tunic a Stalingrad tunic.

[Mark Gibson]

Do you mean to tell me that these aren't Stalingrad tunics...

[-Ray-]

Another adverse misinterpretation I have seen just recently was a tropical M-40 field cap on a website advertised as a DAK Ski Cap?

I'm not talking about Mountain Troops, but where were there DAK ski troops in the desert hitting the slopes?


-Ray-

[Bond]

Do you mean to tell me that these aren't Stalingrad tunics...

Winter camo, IMO. to go with the DAK ski caps



Jerry

[afrikasandman]

Another adverse misinterpretation I have seen just recently was a tropical M-40 field cap on a website advertised as a DAK Ski Cap?

I'm not talking about Mountain Troops, but where were there DAK ski troops in the desert hitting the slopes?


-Ray-

You know as well as I that you could do some sweet skiing down those sand dunes! fall over get all sorts of scraped up by rocks and god knows what else. DAK ski cap..... its almost so sad that I feel a bit sad for that person Matt

[afrikasandman]

Do you mean to tell me that these aren't Stalingrad tunics...

Based on that fading I would say its a safe bet they are 100% original Stalingrad tunics.... no doubt in my mind Great tunics, Really loving that pz. gren officer tunic He can come and see his buddies/fellow mech officers over at my place any time. Hell my guys will even throw a little party for his arrival Matt

[LuckyStrike23]

SMP,

Either way useing DAK to describe anything tropical is wrong and it should be correct for accuracy reasons. JMHO. Matt

Even using DAK for anything that was worn in africa is wrong. The DAK was nothing more than an ordinary mechanized corps with a special name. Here you have the units that belonged to it:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...frikaKorps.htm

all the other units in africa belonged to the "Panzergruppe/ Panzerarmee Afrika", Luftwaffe, Marine ......

My grandfather for example served from 1941 to 1943 in africa and was never ever a member of the DAK.

[MilitaryCollect]

Dak

Hello,

The very first German forces in North Africa were known as "Aufklarungsstab Rommel". Thereafter, on February 19, 1941 Hitler decreed "that the German forces in Africa subordinated to Generalleutnant Rommel would receive the title ... 'Deutches Afrikakorps', with immediate effect 'Aufklarungsstab Rommel' was automatically absorbed by this new command." Bender & Law. Afrikakorps, p. 28.

On August 15, 1941 "Rommel's command was raised to the status of Panzergrupe[.]" and "Panzer Armee Afrika evolved from this Panzergruppe on January 30, 1942." Bender & Law, p. 34.

G. Nafziger delineates the evolution of the Afrikakorps from corps strength to a panzer armee. Nafziger, pp. 51-73. See also, Nafziger, pp. 59-60. Interestingly, Mr. Nafziger lists eight "formations" of the Deutches Afrikakorps btween February, 1941 and May 1, 1942. Nafziger, TAKOAH, pp. 74-98.

I had a soldbuch to recipient of the "Afrikakorps" armelband ~ although he did not arrive in North Afrika until late 1942, but was posted to a unit formerly comprised under "Aufklarungsstab Rommel".

Accordingly, an argument can be made that Hitler's order of February 19, 1941, implementing the term "Afrikakorps" or "DAK", as a fighting body, survived reorganization of August 15, 1941 where the Korps was officially raised to Panzergruppe strength and again raised to Panzerarmee strength on January 30, 1942.

Christopher

[Jean-Frederic]

hello
some pics with M43 tropical uniform in africa
best regard
JF

[afrikasandman]

JF,

no one is saying that 3rd model tunics were not there, they arrived with troops way after the initial push into Afrika. This is common place knowledge, but this one is mint unissued and sat out the war. 3rd models were in Afrika at the very end and are not what so ever associated with DAK (Heers group Afrika yes) but not DAK, they are tropical yes but not that many made it that far. I would only buy a 3rd model that was "in afrika" if it had beyond a solid line to connect it from a Vet bring back with pics and blah blah blah to prove it was actually there and taken from there. Matt

[Unfront]

Jean-Frederic,

Thanks for posting these three photos. I have seen the first photo of 3rd patterns in Afrika before. (I think that photo is in the Dal McGuirk book Rommel's Army in Africa.) That photo proves that the traditional collector lore that "3rd patterns never saw service in Africa" to be baseless and without merit.

I have seen only a handful of photos of 3rd patterns in Africa. I do enjoy seeing them!

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd photos that you have posted, while I would like to believe that these were taken in Afrika, what assures you that these photos were not in say Italy?

Here is a still from a color film showing a third pattern tropical tunic (not DAK) in Tunisia!



I found this on Youtube. The original link is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ootng...eature=related

While the still by itself does not say for certain that it was taken in Afrika, the rest of the film will most definitely show that this film was taken in Tunisa in 1943. (You can see this same officer performing an inspection of Tunisian troops at :33 seconds into the film.)

[Bond]

Looks to be SV 288, with the 'foreign' troops and the sleeve patch.



Jerry