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**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 07:34 AM

I agree that it is woven very correctly, however, only based on that I would not say it is an original.

Maybe a photo of the patch and not a scan if possible. Feather detail is important.

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by tgn View Post

But Willi, aren't there in fact countless variations of normal proficiency badges? There must be as I have collecting variations for years!

Tom, I too have been collecting variations of the insignia I like for years. But, they all retain certain similarities and many of the differences are rather subtle.

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Nigromontanus View Post

Tom should let us know the circumstances of aquiring and the origin of the third specimen shown. I agree that it is woven very correctly, however, only based on that I would not say it is an original. I have never seen one on such low quality textile.

Paul, I look forward to your contributions. I suspect we will be reading from the same sheet of music.

**tgn** · 10-11-2010, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Willi Zahn View Post

Tom, I too have been collecting variations of the insignia I like for years. But, they all retain certain similarities and many of the differences are rather subtle.

Yes, but not always so subtle. There are machine embroidered, hand embroidered, deluxe bullion embroidered, fine detail, weak detail, a multitude of background colors, various types and qualities of background materials, etc. etc. So are there not indeed many variations of proficiency badges?

As for the origin of the 3rd example I posted, I have no great vet source story or anything like that. I just acquired it from another collector about 10 years ago. The fact that Nigromontanus has never seen another example on "such low quality textile" seems positive to me. At least is is not a commomly known reproduction. Or maybe it is? This is becomming a vary interesting discussion...

BTW, the images shown are photos, not scans.

Tom

**Bob Hritz** · 10-11-2010, 10:51 AM

Counting the example on the tunic, I may have accumulated the entire set on both colors of background.

Bob Hritz

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**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post

Counting the example on the tunic, I may have accumulated the entire set on both colors of background.

Bob Hritz

Ah, listen to that music.......

Superb Bob, just superb!

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 11:19 AM

Very odd, all this praise of the field gray backed versions. When I had these patches posted on the badge forums all the talk was that they were HSC made fakes. Then a complete set was sold for $35.00 on the e-stand, which further devalued them. Now, people who never took part in any of these earlier discussions praise them as original.

best wishes,
jeff

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 12:06 PM

BTW, the images shown are photos, not scans.

Tom when you get a chance, retake some photos.

Very odd, all this praise of the field gray backed versions. When I had these patches posted on the badge forums all the talk was that they were HSC made fakes. Then a complete set was sold for $35.00 on the e-stand, which further devalued them. Now, people who never took part in any of these earlier discussions praise them as original.
best wishes,
jeff

I remember that thread very well. There are many knowledgeable collectors here who sit on the sidelines. As an active forum member you should be able to tell.

Jeff, If you get a chance please repost that set. It would be beneficial to this thread imo.

On a side note there are two makers of period badges...

**John Hodgin** · 10-11-2010, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Jeff V View Post

Now, people who never took part in any of these earlier discussions praise them as original.

best wishes,
jeff

Perhaps the people you mention did not see the other discussion. May I ask what is your point?

Collect what you like, know what you collect. Never, NEVER collect, nor value pieces, merely from the opinions of others on internet Forums. Unless you well know the expertise of "these others."

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by John Hodgin View Post

Perhaps the people you mention did not see the other discussion. May I ask what is your point?

Collect what you like, know what you collect. Never, NEVER collect, nor value pieces, merely from the opinions of others on internet Forums. Unless you well know the expertise of "these others."

I never listen to what any so-called experts say John. I do my own research. My point is I suspect that sometimes items are vetted as original or not depending on who owns them. The fact is this-most of the collecting world believe the field gray patches to be fakes.If you review the old threads you will see that I always believed them to be originals.
jeff

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Jeff V View Post

The fact is this-most of the collecting world believe the field gray patches to be fakes.If you review the old threads you will see that I always believed them to be originals.
jeff

Never collect using absolutes. Very dangerous. They are original field-grey examples, some fakes are superb but the differences can be spotted.

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by PAO View Post

Never collect using absolutes. Very dangerous. They are original field-grey examples, some fakes are superb but the differences can be spotted.

What are you talking about? How about doing a photo comparison for us with the fake field gray patches compared to the "real" ones. I would love to see what a real expert in these patches can teach us.
jeff

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 12:55 PM

Lost in translation. Never mind.

A photo comparison sounds excellent. Trying to get some photos together but its not working...

I only study known originals.

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 01:31 PM

C'mon guys, it is not worth it.

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 01:37 PM

It is worth it Willi. Here are some images. Please tell us which ones are original?
jeff

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