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**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Johnny R View Post

Does anyone have examples of known 1957 and later manufactured awards for the BW?

The Bundeswehr does not appear to have had such an award. I have heard of the 1957 awards, but am not sure what they may look like. Perhaps they are the BW type gray ones we presented earlier on.

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by PAO View Post

No, I dont think we should pull the trigger just yet.

There are original examples here is mine which I consider original period made.

You need to have these in your hands, the fine details dont come up properly with a camera. I will not talk more about this on an open forum.

Mike, if you are going this weekend can you bring all the ones you have?

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Jeff V View Post

I don't know that is for sure. The ones I owned I always felt were good because other than the field gray backing compared to the lighter gray backing they looked the same. It always seemed quite possible that a different factory made the field gray ones or the same factory made them both using different wool backings. One thing that does concern me about the field gray examples is that none has ever surfaced in a attributed group and they all exhibit virtually no wear or signs of age.
jeff

I am prepared to say I feel most comfortable, at this time, with the lighter gray ones. Like the ones I posted in the books, others I have photos of, and the ones which sold at the Max. They all exhibit very natural wear with some very light to mild damage.

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Willi Zahn View Post

I am prepared to say I feel most comfortable, at this time, with the lighter gray ones. Like the ones I posted in the books, others I have photos of, and the ones which sold at the Max. They all exhibit very natural wear with some very light to mild damage.

The lighter gray ones for sure are the "textbook" examples. If one is going to collect these things they are the ones I would look for. One thing that does concern me is that if the field gray ones are fake and the only difference is the backing, then the next round of superfakes surely will have the correct lighter gray backing.
For me, at this time, the field gray examples are in a unknown category. Hopefully, in the future, more info will come to light and we might know for certain one way or another.
jeff

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Willi Zahn View Post

Why? Because I might have made a hasty judgment based on who posted the item. My mistake. That is the reality of the hobby, no matter how we don't think it is fair sometimes. We do judge, again sometimes unfairly, ones ability based on the quality of their collection. Sometimes you step out on a limb and the limb breaks off. I would still prefer to be out on that limb than on the ground watching. Lesson learned.

Fair enough Willi.

I am convinced that a lot of good has come from these discussions of the sniper patches, and although we don't know everything yet, knowledge is increasing.
best wishes,
jeff

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 05:22 PM

I agree but here is one more bit of knowledge. Have an original feldgrau example right out of a US vets photo album! Its a 40kill!.

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by PAO View Post

I agree but here is one more bit of knowledge. Have an original feldgrau example right out of a US vets photo album! Its a 40kill!.

This is some very good information! Any pictures or additional info with other items in the photo album to share? Might help us to close the case on these, or at least tilt the good or bad discussion one way or another.
best wishes,
jeff

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 05:39 PM

Lets move on...

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 05:55 PM

[quote=PAO;4264063]Lets move on...[/quote
saw new pm.

**Johnny R** · 10-11-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Willi Zahn View Post

The Bundeswehr does not appear to have had such an award. I have heard of the 1957 awards, but am not sure what they may look like. Perhaps they are the BW type gray ones we presented earlier on.

I mean the reissued awards for the WWII awardees. I would think they would have manufactured new patches. It would be interesting to see those.

**Willi Z.** · 10-11-2010, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by PAO View Post

I agree but here is one more bit of knowledge. Have an original feldgrau example right out of a US vets photo album! Its a 40kill!.

That one has me baffled Mike. My brain hurts......

**Jeff V** · 10-11-2010, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Johnny R View Post

I mean the reissued awards for the WWII awardees. I would think they would have manufactured new patches. It would be interesting to see those.

I do not believe that the pieces were officially produced post 57. They had no swastika so there was no need to have official 57 pieces produced. Perhaps the 57 collectors can clarify if this is true.
best wishes,
jeff

**Johnny R** · 10-11-2010, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Jeff V View Post

I do not believe that the pieces were officially produced post 57. They had no swastika so there was no need to have official 57 pieces produced. Perhaps the 57 collectors can clarify if this is true.
best wishes,
jeff

They were produced, I have heard that from German Veterans. Many 1957 awards were also for sale in Veterans magazines etc. You could buy basically any award. Here is the front and rear of a reported post war produced "1957" award- From a dealer site in Argentina- http://www.antiguamilitaria.com.ar/wehrmacht.htm#franco

INSIGNIA DE FRANCO - TIRADOR - GRADO ORO - FRENTE
Versión Oficial 1957 - Original para Veteranos de Guerra 1939 - 1945, que formaron parte del nuevo Ejercito Alemán de post-guerra, bajo el Gobierno del Canciller Konrad Adehnauer.
Al poseedor de esta insignia, en el momento de ser capturado, habitualmente, se lo ejecutaba en forma sumaria, por eso las destruian antes de entregarse.
Originales anteriores a 1945 practicamente inexistentes.

Attached Files

**Bob Hritz** · 10-11-2010, 07:07 PM

This is the sniper patch that was authorized to wear on the Bundeswehr gray uniform for those authorized the patch in WWII. It is modern BeVo like and on the Bundeswehr gray background. It was made by the same company that produced the BeVo like Bundeswehr collar tabs and unit arm shields.

They were aviilable, in surplus, back in the 1960s and 1970s and offered as originals by many dealers. We now know better.

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-048F.JPG (102.9 KB, 245 views)

**Michael N** · 10-11-2010, 07:13 PM

That one has me baffled Mike. My brain hurts......

I think we need to take a few days off

Regroup and reorganize our thoughts.

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