My first wrapper...

[Albert]

Hi Manu,

Don't be so geizig, I'd even let you choose which one of your two M36 you may keep

I agree with you 100% on the unexplainable deviations. Still, to me a factory applied egle, through the liner, is an deviation. But I have never said that is not possible. I have asked you about your experience with such pieces. Two indeed is many, compared to what i have seen in 100% original M42/3 that would be about 10%.

Oh, thanks for unveiling the secrets, I know what you mean. And I've never looked at your suggestion "Post your eagle and its sewing" as a gag. As I said before, to me the eagle is one of the most important indicators in a tunic; Heer ones that is. Also, trust me I envy you for your forensic connection, seriously. I need to invest into a good digicam to post some pics. But would it be possible for you to post some pics of one of your thru-the-liner eagles.


Ciao,
Al

[derspiess63]

Hi Manu,

Don't be so geizig, I'd even let you choose which one of your two M36 you may keep

I agree with you 100% on the unexplainable deviations. Still, to me a factory applied egle, through the liner, is an deviation. But I have never said that is not possible. I have asked you about your experience with such pieces. Two indeed is many, compared to what i have seen in 100% original M42/3 that would be about 10%.

Oh, thanks for unveiling the secrets, I know what you mean. And I've never looked at your suggestion "Post your eagle and its sewing" as a gag. As I said before, to me the eagle is one of the most important indicators in a tunic; Heer ones that is. Also, trust me I envy you for your forensic connection, seriously. I need to invest into a good digicam to post some pics. But would it be possible for you to post some pics of one of your thru-the-liner eagles.

Oh, I do have to disagree with you once again, let's say to follow the recently established tradition I don't "definitely know what
collecting's alll about" because I take it to "ruin".

Ciao,
Al

Keine geizig.....meine ist eine sechsunddreissigarme sammlung !
As I said a million times I cannot post attachment here until someone Seba will investigate on my membership being PERPETUALLY PENDING !!!
Tschus
Manu
P.S.;you don't take anything to ruin;I'm sure John didn't mean to offend you..take a seat,kick your shoes off and speak your mind out

[John Hodgin]

Hello John,

"I think your conclusion leads down the collecting road to ruin...."

Which one and how would that be? Seriously, you just lost me. I thought I was the one arguing in favor of sticking to the rules. As of now I think your statement is paranoid, insulting and uncalled for in any way. I would really appreciate if you could elaborate instead of closing with "..."

Best regards,
Al

I didn't close with....... I closed with "I am troubled by the eagle" and I am. This eagle may be authentic, I don't know, and I would like other opinions. THERE IS NOTHING INSULTING ABOUT THAT AT ALL, unless you read into posts things that are not there........!

My comment about the 'road to ruin" is clear. It refers to construction "variations" as the lapel size that Manuel mentioned, and that only. IMHO factory standards were adhered to, that is all I meant. This doesn't consider Field modifications, that is a different topic.

I regret you find me insulting, so I'll will comment no more about this wrapper.

[derspiess63]

I didn't close with....... I closed with "I am troubled by the eagle" and I am. This eagle may be authentic, I don't know, and I would like other opinions. THERE IS NOTHING INSULTING ABOUT THAT AT ALL, unless you read into posts things that are not there........!

My comment about the 'road to ruin" is clear. It refers to construction "variations" as the lapel size that Manuel mentioned, and that only. IMHO factory standards were adhered to, that is all I meant. This doesn't consider Field modifications, that is a different topic.

I regret you find me insulting, so I'll will comment no more about this wrapper.

John,
I'm sure Albert doesn't feel insulted and I'm speaking for him now because I'm sure that it's so!Please join us again and let's keep the comment coming!

[Albert]

Manu,

Well, to tell you the truth... I did. But now, seeing that it was your "lapel" conclusion that took us to ruin, I feel much better already . BTW, did I already ask you to post some pics of the eagle???

John,

heh, John, you still there??? You are right, you did not close with "..." you went on, and then you closed with "........." Now, seriously, I see what you mean, I will go back to all my posts and will take the edge out. I would appreciate if you could go back too and rephrase the "ruined" parts.

Now to your eagle dilemma. I have no clue whether that eagle is good or not, I don't collect LW. And that is why I was stubbornly asking about the attachment. I was most sceptical from the beginning but it just is not my way to be blunt.

BTW, it still is ok to disagree but don't you think it is difficult to speak of norms and regulations without actually having any period production specs? After all, within the short period of five years they had gone thru say half a dozen different Heer tunic models in pre DIN-ISO times.

Anyway, I am glad things are sorted out.

Best regards,
Al

John,
I'm sure Albert doesn't feel insulted and I'm speaking for him now because I'm sure that it's so!Please join us again and let's keep the comment coming!

[derspiess63]

Manu,

Well, to tell you the truth... I did. But now, seeing that it was your "lapel" conclusion that took us to ruin, I feel much better already . BTW, did I already ask you to post some pics of the eagle???

John,

heh, John, you still there??? You are right, you did not close with "..." you went on, and then you closed with "........." Now, seriously, I see what you mean, I will go back to all my posts and will take the edge out. I would appreciate if you could go back too and rephrase the "ruined" parts.

Now to your eagle dilemma. I have no clue whether that eagle is good or not, I don't collect LW. And that is why I was stubbornly asking about the attachment. I was most sceptical from the beginning but it just is not my way to be blunt.

BTW, it still is ok to disagree but don't you think it is difficult to speak of norms and regulations without actually having any period production specs? After all, within the short period of five years they had gone thru say half a dozen different Heer tunic models in pre DIN-ISO times.

Anyway, I am glad things are sorted out.

Best regards,
Al

So am I!And we all MUST disagree on something in order to keep a thread going
Take Care
Manuel

[PaulR]

Thank you all for showing me the light on this bastid!! I have already given him 1,000. I will try and get it back from him. Thank you so much

Paul Reck

[Jean-Loup]

As they said, when its to good to be true, it usually is. I am sure in a couple of months, you will be able to clearly see that this uniform was bad.
JL

[John Hodgin]

BTW, it still is ok to disagree but don't you think it is difficult to speak of norms and regulations without actually having any period production specs? After all, within the short period of five years they had gone thru say half a dozen different Heer tunic models in pre DIN-ISO times.



Best regards,
Al

Hi Albert,

'Difficult to speak of norms without specs'.... I don't think so. Yes, specs would be very helpful, and solve many problems, but what I was talking about is total consistent construction. My limited experence is with Luftwaffe uniforms, but I've seen hundreds of final pattern jump smocks, all were patterned and constructed exactly the same, no variations. Materials, eagles, zippers and buttons varied, but construction was the same throughout.

When posted from me........ a way of saying, "think about what I have said for a while. No insult indended.

Hi Manuel.
Best,
John

[derspiess63]

Hi Albert,

'Difficult to speak of norms without specs'.... I don't think so. Yes, specs would be very helpful, and solve many problems, but what I was talking about is total consistent construction. My limited experence is with Luftwaffe uniforms, but I've seen hundreds of final pattern jump smocks, all were patterned and constructed exactly the same, no variations. Materials, eagles, zippers and buttons varied, but construction was the same throughout.

When posted from me........ a way of saying, "think about what I have said for a while. No insult indended.

Hi Manuel.
Best,
John

Ciao John!

[Albert]

Hi John,

I see exactly what you mean, and, frankly, that's my thinking too, but...

From my observation I have made the empirical deduction that eagles were applied before the tunic received its lining. Now, however, Manu says he has 100% original tunics with eagles applied afterwards. And, there is additional stitching that goes over the eagle and proves the eagle has not been messed with. How do we deal with that kind of info?

That's why I would love to see photos of Manu's tunics. And that's why I am willing to reconsider my view of the past decade and a half with regard to the application of eagles.

As a side note, I am quite aware that there is a difference between ordinance and men's apparel But what do you think is easier to source out to an Oma with a Singer or a Pfaff?

Ok guys, it's getting late here

Best regards, cordiali saluti,
Al

[derspiess63]

Hi John,

I see exactly what you mean, and, frankly, that's my thinking too, but...

From my observation I have made the empirical deduction that eagles were applied before the tunic received its lining. Now, however, Manu says he has 100% original tunics with eagles applied afterwards. And, there is additional stitching that goes over the eagle and proves the eagle has not been messed with. How do we deal with that kind of info?

That's why I would love to see photos of Manu's tunics. And that's why I am willing to reconsider my view of the past decade and a half with regard to the application of eagles.

As a side note, I am quite aware that there is a difference between ordinance and men's apparel But what do you think is easier to source out to an Oma with a Singer or a Pfaff?

Ok guys, it's getting late here

Best regards, cordiali saluti,
Al

As soon as I'll be able to post attachment I'll pelt the forums with pictures of eagles,boots,shoes,holsters,caps,greatcoats,helmet s,smocks,shirts,trousers,
equipments,socks,sweaters,gloves,underwear,knives, bayonets,K98ks,markings,bits and bobs,toms and jerries and plenty of Pam Anderson's boobs ones,till then.....it's all in Mr. Seba's hands and anytime I say that i feel like
Gute nacht Albert
Good nite everybody
Manuel

[John Hodgin]

From my observation I have made the empirical deduction that eagles were applied before the tunic received its lining. Now, however, Manu says he has 100% original tunics with eagles applied afterwards. And, there is additional stitching that goes over the eagle and proves the eagle has not been messed with. How do we deal with that kind of info?


Al

I agree totally Albert. The eagles of jump smocks were applied before the pockets were sewn in. Perhaps Manuel's Heer uniforms are different, we will see......
Regards to you both,
John

[Willi Z.]

I really didn't want to get involved in this matter, but have received several PMs asking me for my opinion. Will say that I am NO expert dealing with HG wraps. But, I know several good friends who own originals, and I examined a textbook wrap, pants, and M43.....all matching BTW...that sold to a very good friend of mine. And, I know when I like something and when I don't.

I DO NOT like this tunic!!!! And, for various reasons.

The wrap is loaded with "concerns". First off, it is priced at a FRACTION of what known originals go for........they are very rare and VERY expensive. That by itself should raise warning bells. And, that source requires lots of knowledge when buying something from. I don't like the eagle, or the method of attachment. No zig-zag on a piece like that and I would walk away. Period. The skulls, boards, markings, buttons, maybe even the cufftitle, all are issues. Finding the right boards is not that tough, and they are not even present on this piece.

I would run from this item........

Willi

[Bobbe]

Hi Patrick,
I have seen your splendid photo of the tank crewman of the HG Panzer Division. Me it seems to recognize the city of Cecina (Leghorn) Italy, where alive and where the HG has parked before continuing for the Sud Italy's front.
Where you have found that photo? You have other photos? You can post them?
Thanks.
Roberto