Variations in U-Boat / Panzer Leather Wrappers

[RobertE]

Hello,

There's a number of good threads on the topic, but I'll make a few summary comments. These were used by more than just navy, and did some some use by ground forces as well. A few point:

- Many of these are marked with KM eagles, stamped into the leather
- They are often found with the leather foul weather navy caps, made from the same materials and bearing the same markings
- There's photographic evidence of the wrappers in wear by KM personnel

There is also photographic and wartime documents that indicate limited used by armored personnel as well. But they are generally considered to be made for naval use.

regards, Robert

[km-spain]

Hello,

There's a number of good threads on the topic, but I'll make a few summary comments. These were used by more than just navy, and did some some use by ground forces as well. A few point:

- Many of these are marked with KM eagles, stamped into the leather
- They are often found with the leather foul weather navy caps, made from the same materials and bearing the same markings
- There's photographic evidence of the wrappers in wear by KM personnel

There is also photographic and wartime documents that indicate limited used by armored personnel as well. But they are generally considered to be made for naval use.

regards, Robert

Robert, in more than 16 years of KM collecting I have never seen one of this with KM stamps, in my hands or in pictures. The navy fould weather caps were not made in leather but in rubberized cloth. The photographic evidences are few, I have seen some pictures but not too many.

IMO used by some KM personnel but not a KM garment.

[RobertE]

Hi KM,

There's a number of the stamps here on the forum, and I'll take a look later tonight and post some links. I've personally owned two sets with full KM stamps, and will see if I still have photos on file.

Here's the leather headpiece often found with this style of leathers. I say often because I've purchased two sets with the cap, and have another set being offered to me right now that also has the same cap.

It is leather, and marked to the same maker as the rest of the Prossnitz set shown.

regards, Robert

[RobertE]

Same exact grommets as on the trousers -

[RobertE]

same buttons as on the rest of the outfit -

[RobertE]

...and maker. I've seen too many of these with the wrapper leathers to not believe they were issued with them.

[RobertE]

Now having rambled on, I will say that I believe (as most do) that this was some form of utility garment used by a number of services, including KM and land forces.

I've not seen evidence they were used by the LW, but I suppose that plausible as well.

[km-spain]

OK Robert, thanks for pictures, now I see what cap are you talking about, but this one IMO is either not a navy fould weather cap and I have never seen it in use by a KM man.

I have search in the forum and haqve not seen any leather wrap like these with KM stamps, but they could excist of course. I have seen 15-20 of these wraps, many in my hands, and no one had the KM stamps, so only a few could have the KM stamps and this is enought reason for me to say that it was used by them as many others but is not a KM garment.

Anyway this is only my opinion.

[RobertE]

Eduardo, it sounds like you've handled lots of these, and I appreciate your insights. What do you feel their main purpose was?

regards, Robert

[phild]

OK Robert, thanks for pictures, now I see what cap are you talking about, but this one IMO is either not a navy fould weather cap and I have never seen it in use by a KM man.

I have search in the forum and haqve not seen any leather wrap like these with KM stamps, but they could excist of course. I have seen 15-20 of these wraps, many in my hands, and no one had the KM stamps, so only a few could have the KM stamps and this is enought reason for me to say that it was used by them as many others but is not a KM garment.

Anyway this is only my opinion.

I have personally examined at least one of these wraps (about 20-25 years ago) with an original KM Eagle M stamp. I have may have seen another one over the years as well. It was either the Crailsheim or Munster origin wrap and not the Hiene type. I think that the the KM accpeted ones are pretty rare but I KNOW that they exist and are real (of the period stamped).

I agree that the cap Robert shows was made as part of these sets...maybe every set had them 1:1 maybe not. The vents all seem to be in rust proof aluminium. Maybe for non- corrosion prpperties in salt water or maybe just againist sweat...either way high quality for late war.....most everything else had dropped this metal for uniform applications by 1941 or so.

I don't know if the sets were made originally for KM use or not (midget subs?) but they did end up with some either way. The caps would have worked for PZ use as well...burn and wind protection.


I have examined truly tons of German uniforms, but I have not examined thousands of tons of them. They made millions of tons so my point of reference is still fairly small when compared to all that was made. I see things (maybe just a tailor label) that I have never seen before almost every day on this forum.

Wartime photos are a great tool, but there are also limitations. One of these is when trying to find evidence of later war items in wear. There are so few photos around of operational KM crews (and many other formations) taken during the last 6 months or even 12 months of the war that it is very weak to base a conclusion that a given item type was not used or perhaps did not even exist (SS FJ smocks for instance) on this of lack of evidence.

It is interesting to speculate that given the pattern of German uniform developemnt in 1943-44 of designing single patterns of so many things for multi service use like the M-44 uniform...even to some degree paint colors, camo and Feldgrau-44...to name a few, that just maybe this was a leather over suit for PZ and KM (U-Boot) that never got issued in large numbers to timing of the introduction and the logistic problems (priorities) faced by the Germans during the last 6 months of the war. No proof of this at all, just a thought.

[km-spain]

Robert, no lots but I have handled some. I really don't know the final purpose of these, but I do not agree that was for different services. In last months of the war soldiers used what they can find but germans were germans and try to mantein the uniformity regulations. If you see the Marine Infantry units they used a mix of garments but manteining the KM uniformity, and this was ib teh very last months.

I agrre with many of the coemments from Phil, but I can noy imagine useing these tunics in U-Boots without any warm lining, as all KM leather uniforms. These jackets look more like a cloth for protection for oil, dirty, burn, ... than for cold.

Finally who really knows.

[Colorado]

Robert - You may find my thread of interest I just posted. Two mint sets.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post3817572

Are yours gray? Mine are black as night

[RobertE]

Beautiful! Both my pairs are also black. Same tagging conventions, and again found with those cool hoods!

Normally, a brimmed hood is intended for inclement weather or water shed, and I do believe these may have been intended for KM service more than others - but who knows.

Thanks for posting the link - those are very nice sets!

regards, Robert

[Firion]

Leather Hood

Greetings ,
I recently acquired a ww2 ? Leather jumper , 2 Prossnitz leather panzer jackets ,2 prossnitz trousers with belts and suspenders .
The full body jump suit has buttons snaps at the collar which would support a hood like the one pictured here in this forum .
Unlike the prossnitz stamped jacket and trousers , the jump suit , wool lined has a Spider in a web stamp ? It is very heavy and durable and in excellant condition.
I am assuming the prossnitz leather is collectable garments ?
Would appreciate some info on the jump suit and the spider stamping. Could it be a manufactorers mark ? Spinners in Berlin ?
Firion

[Firion]

WW2 Leather Panzer Jacket and trousers , UBoot uniform

Greetings to all , i have placed my uniform on ebay for auction sale to end June 17, 2010. For those interested .
WW2 Leather Panzer Jacket and trousers , Uboot iuniform
@ ebay