Steuermann badge

[Raymond]

Hi guys. I've searched the forum and found little info on these badges. The few threads that there are have few photos. How do you tell good from bad? Here are the two I have, let me know what you think of them.
Thanks.
Front of the silver-gray cotton version.

[Raymond]

Unfortunately someone glued paper to the back. I've removed some of it but the rest is going to be a little tougher.

[Raymond]

Bullion version, front.

[Raymond]

Back. The spot at the 12 o'clock position in this and previous photos are from sun glare.

[Rob E.]

Hi Raymond,

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

The first one doesn't match known characteristics of any of the 3 variants of Steuermann badges and is IMHO a repro.

The second one is authentic, third (and last) pattern.

If you'd like to part with the second one, let me know and I'll pay your price.

[Raymond]

Hi Rob,
Thanks for looking at them. Do you have any photos of good ones so I can compare? All the threads I could find on these are missing the photos.
I probably won't get rid of it but if I ever do I'll let you know.

[Rob E.]

Not a prob, Steuermann badges are my "cup of tea" as they say.

The best you can find right now is to do a WAF search for "Steuermann" and you'll find a few photos.

After the holiday season I can email you some quality photos.

I'm working on a book / detailed project article for the WAF website so I'll have lots of quality Steuermann badge photos uploaded eventually.

I own several Steuermann badges (the most I've ever seen or heard of in one collection thus far) and have discovered numerous variants, hidden features and maker marks which I look forward to sharing with my collecting friends in my book / project article.

[Raymond]

Thanks Rob, looking forward to it.

[Johnny R]

So, is the first cloth version a post War reproduction of a wartime example in cloth?

[juoneen]

Check out page 178 ...vol.1 mark yergers German cross in gold :Ewald Ehm.most decorated engineer in deutschland pioneer batallion. he wears the coxwains specialists badge , and is still present day emblem for the waffen ss pioneer veterans assn. Its a good read. Your badge may even if post war be one of those made for the assn.?? anybody know?

[Rob E.]

So, is the first cloth version a post War reproduction of a wartime example in cloth?

Correct, the first one pictured is a good repro, (I've never seen another like it) but doesn't match known construction materials & characteristics of any of the 3 main variants.

It was IMHO made postwar for a veterans association or to fool a collector.

I base this opinion off owning many Steuermann badges and studying around 100 wartime photos of Steuermann badges in wear.

WAF Member Sturmboot is also knowlegable on these.

[Rob E.]

Unfortunately someone glued paper to the back. I've removed some of it but the rest is going to be a little tougher.

Try soaking it in water, since it isn't silver bullion or zinc metal (like early ones), you shouldn't have any probs with it.

Also, if you decide to part with the good repro, I'd be interested in it as well.

[Johnny R]

I guess my question would be is do you know it is a repro. Do you have examples that are shown in catalogs etc. or is it only an example that you have not seen in photographs? The regulations from late 1929 only specify it was to be metal or embroidered in silver or matte? Seems to be less clear as far as only three variations. Is the example I posted a repro?

[Johnny R]

Reverse for more detail-

[Rob E.]

I guess my question would be is do you know it is a repro.

100%? No, it's my current opinion. Any new insight you can provide is most welcome though!

Do you have examples that are shown in catalogs etc.

Have yet to find any of these alas.

Is the example I posted a repro?

Yours appears about the same as the earlier one posted above, fascinating!

I'm going to have to dig deeper, this might turn out to be the 4th (mid-late war) variant...

May I have the badge dimensions?

or is it only an example that you have not seen in photographs?

Yes, I've never seen the cloth version in over 100 wartime photos or in a collection until just now.

I own early metal versions, mid-war silver bullion and late-war silver bullion versions.