Help buying flight pants, opinions, pricing, etc.?

[Scott A. Hess]

To each his own, I guess. Those wired pants are not period Luft. They wouldn't conect with a wired cloth Luft jacket and everything was made as a matching set (leather to leather, cloth to cloth, etc). It's strange that the important details are being dismissed out of hand with these pants because the velour looks OK.

Once again, the Eastern Bloc modelled a lot of flight clothing on Luft stuff and even used captured Luft stores in manufacturing. These may be completely proper post war pants that have had a Luft label added for the current market.

Here are pics of correct cloth and leather suits and the correct wiring pattern at the waist. These are different manufacturers and different time frames, but as is obvious, the contruction and wiring are STANDARD patterns as one would expect. The pants sold on Ebay do not match, and in my assessment are not the real Luftwaffe deal. But if one wants to drop a couple of thousand dollars on them, that's his business.

Jut,you could be completely right, and I of course could be 100 percent wrong on these pants, I don't claim to know it all, or even a fraction of what was produced, just my thoughts:...........

Im not basing my opinion solely on the velour, but on other details in the pants. could I be wrong? Certainly. I was not there when these various companies in Germany,Austria or other contries were making this stuff, nor was anyone else following this thread. Im simply providing an opinion as to what I see from the pics provided. Could they be post war? It is certainly a possibility, I still have not seen a real good detailed pic of the actual blue fabric itself. So there is a bit of "wiggle" room. My point is, Im looking at the totality of the constuciton and components, the hardware, wiring, bakelite, so they are either a period variant, postwar mock up, or ground up redos. The later I think from pics I'd dismiss. I just have not seen what the Czechs' did or did not make re these flight pants, and I have not run across every single type flight pants made, I have a set I only the last few years ago had bought that looked like bulgarian, and find out they were made in Crotia to match the boots Jos had which I now own, which I now have the matching jacket for, I didnt know these sets exsisted. Maybe the Croatians developed these flight suites, and the germans said, keeps the guys warm, make some for us, i dont know. I try to keep an open mind, while realizing there are those out there who take advantage of this (repro artists) and crank out wares to steal our cash. In the end, IMO the pants (electric) look period. AGAIN, I havn't held them in hand, and often times that is everything, I could do so and say, wow, those really are the real deal, or go 180 and say, not for me. Maybe part of me does not want to think that they have one up on all of us and have reinvented the wheel exactly as issued in WWII, repro or czech, take your pick. Like I said, I wasn't there when they were made, I wasnt studying this stuff in 43 examining what the various factories were pumping out by hte tens of thousands, but I do believe we only see a fraction today of what was made, most of it got burned up in those planes that went done, ended up in trash heaps, or ground up for junk.

[Scott A. Hess]

Thanks, Scott. And Your opinion to the unwired pants?

I have to admit, studying the unwired pants more and more, I like them more and more. The tag dosn't belong there, I have seen this tag (original) on unissued one piece flight suits. Take a look at the pic of the closeup of hte tag and the material. I looks downright scary in comparison with my pants, which ARE accepted as originals. I dont care for the black paint on the lanywards, but the buttons, sewing, stitching, reece type button holes, the look more and more "good". However, I cant say 100 percent either way from just hte pics, but I will say, if I saw those at a show, I'd give them serious conideration, bottom line, if they are bad, then I am just way behind the learning curve on these, and I have no problem admitting that. I have never owned a set of unlined pants, just the blue unlined jacket. Simple jacket in design and execution, far simpler than these and the wired pants to make, and still they get those jackets wrong, very wrong.I guess my opinion at this point is, I cant say 100 percent on the unwired either way without holding them in hand, I will say, if they are fake, they have upped the ainty in my mind. I know a lot of people ( I dont mean on this thread) dont like to say "good" because if they are wrong, they are perceived as being clueless, far worse to to opine a piece is good and be wrong, than visa versa, but I am here trying to learn, and if I get it wrong in doing so, thats just life, no one has to buy anything based on my yeah or nay, in the end, its up to them. IMO the pants are something to be cautious of, and in the end, the cautious bet says stay away, and call them repros. Im just not sure. Question is, this guy on ebay either has two sets of good pants, or I believe, two sets of fakes I didnt know existed to that level of sophistication. You choose and each be his own judge, for me, when the issue re any item, and these flight pants certianly fall into that catagory, when any item for ME is a tough call, then I would err on buying ONLY what is textbook to sleep well at night. If they were 200 dollars, I'd buy them just because and learn from them, but Im sure they went for more.

[hs132]

Hello, here is the site of J. Hahn and a fine site it is. http://www.luftwaffe-militaria.com/f...ht-pants_1.htm You can view a very similar pair of elect heated pants with the same label. The pants also have the horizontal reinforcement straps on the right lower leg flag pocket and the shorter elect attachment. I have no doubt that pair is origional. Too bad as all his pairs are sold. Pictured is a pair of blue cloth, fur lined type also. Best, Bill

[hs132]

Hello, here are some pics of somewhat unusual pants. This pic shows strap downs on the pocket flaps, this pic is cropped and there are others in the line with similar parts. Bill

[hs132]

This is a cropped pic also. There about 8-9 pilots lying on the ground and nearly all have flare pouches applied to the right front pocket. ? unit applied or factory. Bill

[Scott A. Hess]

Hello, here is the site of J. Hahn and a fine site it is. http://www.luftwaffe-militaria.com/f...ht-pants_1.htm You can view a very similar pair of elect heated pants with the same label. The pants also have the horizontal reinforcement straps on the right lower leg flag pocket and the shorter elect attachment. I have no doubt that pair is origional. Too bad as all his pairs are sold. Pictured is a pair of blue cloth, fur lined type also. Best, Bill

Bill, those pants on Jahns site are wonderful, the last two pics show in perfect detail the weave/sheen/look this particular type of material has, and is consistent with every good pair of electrical jackets/pants/one pieeceKombis I've ever owned or handled that I felt was good.

[Jos L C]

Bill, could it be that just the pocket was removed, leaving the flare loops ?

Jos.

[hs132]

Hello Jos, yes you are right. Here is the other half of the pic. This shows the left pocket removed. Best, Bill

[RamJet]

The unwired pants went for 1,289 Euros ... same buyer as for the wired ones.

And he just missed the strange suspenders, which went for 151 Euros:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=390032247825

[Scott A. Hess]

Great period photos, are they from your collection or a book? I have a US army photo which is I believe unpublished, two of them, showing two guys in leather gear surrendering, when I find them, I"ll scan them and post.

[WWIIBuff]

Pants

Ok, I can understand the price of the wired pants, and maybe the price of the summer pants, but the shirt had no Luftwaffe characteristics as far as I know and I think we all agree the suspender were not even close to Luftwaffe.

Can you believe 151 euro for the suspenders and 314 for the shirt.

[hs132]

Great period photos, are they from your collection or a book? I have a US army photo which is I believe unpublished, two of them, showing two guys in leather gear surrendering, when I find them, I"ll scan them and post.

Hi Scott, those pic are from the book Green Hearts, Dora 9 by Axel Urbanke and it has many pics of the leather sets in wear. Bill

[Jos L C]

Can you believe 151 euro for the suspenders and 314 for the shirt.

Sometimes lack of knowledge or wanting to score a "special" item... I've seen luft collections containing pretty weird stuff and over 50% fake items, that's a pity, but the owners are convinced..
On the other hand, when people have the wrong contacts, they'll never notice the difference..
Saw a guy with at least 5 fake N&G in his collection.., guess he has no idea..

Jos.

[Jos L C]

You guys did notice the arm compass.. ?

Jos.

[RamJet]

That the winner of the two pants also was willing to spend 150 Euros for the strange suspenders gives me some serious doubts that he really knows what he do, even if he did not get them in the end. At least, he is not in the bidder list for the shirt.