Help buying flight pants, opinions, pricing, etc.?

[Jos L C]

Hello, I think the Gods of collecting are tormenting us with this jacket. Best, Bill

You bet..

Jos.

[juvatwad]

Where was this jacket found, underwater or is it from a crash site on terra firma? If it sat soaking for decades, the loss of color on the jacket body alone isn't unusual. One I have is faded on the body, but the waistband isn't bad at all. I can tell it was previously washed with a phoshpate based detergent as well. I won't repeat the wash to check how much more color would be lost with a second soaking, though!

[hs132]

Hello, here is a thread from germandaggers.com about the Great White and more pics and the story behind this tattered jacket. I have lost touch with the poster and see he hasnt posted there since 06. He describes the crash site and provides more details about the jacket. http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums...9040059643/p/2
Best, Bill

[Overijssel]

Great white

To get a closer look of the jacket, maybe one of the Belgium members can go over there and take a closer look. I believe this jacket is in Erembodegem, Belgium. On one of the posted pis I saw a sign "BAHA Collection" so I think you 'll find the jacket in this musem:

http://aviher.ibelgique.com/erembode...rembodegem.htm

By the way; Merry Christmas to all of you!
Eric

[SprogCollector]

Where was this jacket found, underwater or is it from a crash site on terra firma? If it sat soaking for decades, the loss of color on the jacket body alone isn't unusual. One I have is faded on the body, but the waistband isn't bad at all. I can tell it was previously washed with a phoshpate based detergent as well. I won't repeat the wash to check how much more color would be lost with a second soaking, though!

By description provided by the link to the Daggers site, the aircraft crashed on land and was buried underground. The poster describes that the channel pants were also found and retained their color.

While I find this entire thread fascinating, I would offer that the pilot, Obergefreiter Heinrich Zenker, died in battle wearing this jacket. I'm glad he was found and properly buried. Photo via:
http://sites.google.com/site/grouphu...ts/veurne-1943

[Jos L C]

It's also interesting to read that while they were digging it started to rain and the hole was filling with bright green water caused by the pilot's Farbbeutel (dye bag)..

Funny thing is this dye is red and turns into bright green/yellow when it contacts the water..

Jos.

[SprogCollector]

Jos,
Does the description indicate how much wreckage was removed or how intact various sections of it were? I'm somewhat confused by the level of damage to the to the relic pieces shown and the relatively intact condition of the jacket. From the notes on the Daggers site, it sounds as though all Obergefreiter Zenker's papers were intact and in his pocket.

I would think the pilot was still in the cockpit and somewhat protected from the elements. This is contradicted by the photos which clearly show the aircraft hit the ground with great force.

[Jos L C]

Jos,
Does the description indicate how much wreckage was removed or how intact various sections of it were? I'm somewhat confused by the level of damage to the to the relic pieces shown and the relatively intact condition of the jacket. From the notes on the Daggers site, it sounds as though all Obergefreiter Zenker's papers were intact and in his pocket.

I would think the pilot was still in the cockpit and somewhat protected from the elements. This is contradicted by the photos which clearly show the aircraft hit the ground with great force.

The plane went straight into the ground, they found the whole back part of the plane of what is behind the panzer seat and then it stopped.., so they started digging more at the side of the hole at a depth of 21 feet, there they found the engine and cockpit with the pilot still in it.., front part of the plane broke off by the impact and took another direction under the ground.
They also have the flare pistol and his papers and there's a list of the plane parts they've..

Jos.

[RamJet]

On impact with ground usually the parts of an aircraft spread over a smaller or larger area depending on the angle and speed. Pilot is often torn apart on impact which the single remains relatively intact.

Observations from investigation of flight accidents of the modern German air force. On an fatal Alpha Jet crash in 1986 for example we found the upper body of the pilot torn apart from the under body and the head was nearly torn apart from the upper body, if I remember right.

So it was no problem to find parts of the clothing only slightly damaged.

Edit: Oh, I see, Jos was faster ...

[Jos L C]

Looks like this is the engine..


Jos.

[Jos L C]

... and there's our jacket .., bottom left, next to the remains of what looks like a (his) one-man lifeboat and or swimmingvest ..


Jos.

[Jos L C]

Are we giving up ? ..


Jos.

[hs132]

Hello, Im aware of two of these that changed hands in the last 10 years. I heard of one leaving Ireland to an unknown destination and one selling from Europe to somewhere in Asia possibly Japan. These were more of semi informed rumors. Best, Bill

[Jos L C]

Hard to tell..
They also might be one of the better fakes..

Here's another attempt, but no cigar..

Jos.

[Jos L C]

Oh boy..

Unfortunately someone has removed the rare white bird ..


Jos.