Help buying flight pants, opinions, pricing, etc.?

[Leroy]

I've never seen this one in person, but I'm just wondering why the cloth body of the jacket would have faded so uniformly and the waistband and eagle not faded at all?

[Jos L C]

Same thing with some tropical clothes and caps, they fade to white, while the backing of the eagles keeps a dark khaki color..
In clothing branch there're "real" dye colors and fading dye colors..

Jos.

[Leroy]

Jos,
Maybe I'll leave a blue one out in the sun. It will fade and then I can pretend I have a white one!
Merry Christmas!
Leroy

[Jos L C]

COOL PLAN, Leroy ! .........

Merry X-Mas


Jos.

[RamJet]

Merry X-mas,
Steve

[hs132]

All of the above (eagle, zipper construction, etc) supports this being a badly faded blue jacket and not a white one.

Hello, find a white sleeve button in the cockpit and the mystery is solved. I think however it is a Great White. I have several more photos that I believe show remnants of the deteriorated floppy wool collar in the neck region. There is no way that a blue windbreaker in any way would have that type of remains in that region. Tight schedule today, will try to show that aspect at sometime today. Merry Christmas to all. Best, Bill

[hs132]

Hello, I was able to get these pics on before leaving for the day. One can see clumps of blue wool fuzz in these pics in the neck region. One can surmise the reasons for the neck area deterioration. The small clumps are clearly attached to the neck region and there is nothing on a plain windbreaker that can account for this. If I lived within 1000 miles of this I would travel to examine closer. One can also see the inner jacket lining that is white and its doubtful to me that there would be such a uniform fading inside of two layers of cloth to a whitish color. Sorry but cant account for a blue backed eagle. Find a white button and even a few cm of wool attached to the collar region and you have your answer. Best, Bill

[hs132]

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[hs132]

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[hs132]

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[hs132]

4. blue attached wool fuzz at the top. Best, Bill

[SprogCollector]

Interesting twist!!! In fact, one I hadn't really considered. For the moment, I'm with Bill on this. I think it's a white jacket but will seriously consider the faded-blue scenario.

My issues of why it wouldn't be a blue jacket are:
1. the fading is very uniform. If this was literally still on the remains of the pilot, I would think the back would not have had the same exposure and therefore wouldn't be the same degree of color shift.

2. There is no sign of darkened areas for where the parachute harness and seatbelt harness would have remained covering the respective areas -- again resulting in darker areas (residual blue).

3. The collar area does tend to show bits of wool remnant. Considering how well everything from the chest down has survived, would it be reasonable to expect that the cotton collar would also have survived?

4. The linings to these jackets appear to be blue and there is a hint of blue hue in some of the photos. I suspect this is simply residual color in the lining and not residual color in the outer shell of the jacket.

Counter arguments would include:
5. Jacket style seems to be identical to the blue version with regards to zipper arrangement.

6. The blue eagle certainly begs some explaining.

Things I will be looking for in photos:
7. Are there any photos of white jackets with full zipper fronts that are the same layout as the blue jacket (except for collar style)?

8. Any photos showing white jackets with other than white eagles?

9. Do enlisted pilots have the same white eagle? Or do they get the blue wool eagle? I note that the Schuck photo does not have any eagle on the jacket. Removed or never had one?

10. Is anyone here located anywhere near where this jacket is on display? A look at the fabric color at the back, inside the map pocket, and any areas where sun exposure would be minimized would surely tell what color this was.

11. Were there any additional items excavated? As Bill mentions, find the sleeve buttons and you have the answer. There must have been substantial remains of the aircraft found as the jacket/pilot appear to have been preserved in the cockpit and not (presumably) raised from the Zuider See. Are there any details of the aircraft and/or pilot?

[Jos L C]

Interesting twist!!! In fact, one I hadn't really considered. For the moment, I'm with Bill on this. I think it's a white jacket but will seriously consider the faded-blue scenario.

My issues of why it wouldn't be a blue jacket are:
1. the fading is very uniform. If this was literally still on the remains of the pilot, I would think the back would not have had the same exposure and therefore wouldn't be the same degree of color shift.

2. There is no sign of darkened areas for where the parachute harness and seatbelt harness would have remained covering the respective areas -- again resulting in darker areas (residual blue).

3. The collar area does tend to show bits of wool remnant. Considering how well everything from the chest down has survived, would it be reasonable to expect that the cotton collar would also have survived?

4. The linings to these jackets appear to be blue and there is a hint of blue hue in some of the photos. I suspect this is simply residual color in the lining and not residual color in the outer shell of the jacket.

Counter arguments would include:
5. Jacket style seems to be identical to the blue version with regards to zipper arrangement.

6. The blue eagle certainly begs some explaining.

Things I will be looking for in photos:
7. Are there any photos of white jackets with full zipper fronts that are the same layout as the blue jacket (except for collar style)?

8. Any photos showing white jackets with other than white eagles?

9. Do enlisted pilots have the same white eagle? Or do they get the blue wool eagle? I note that the Schuck photo does not have any eagle on the jacket. Removed or never had one?

10. Is anyone here located anywhere near where this jacket is on display? A look at the fabric color at the back, inside the map pocket, and any areas where sun exposure would be minimized would surely tell what color this was.

11. Were there any additional items excavated? As Bill mentions, find the sleeve buttons and you have the answer. There must have been substantial remains of the aircraft found as the jacket/pilot appear to have been preserved in the cockpit and not (presumably) raised from the Zuider See. Are there any details of the aircraft and/or pilot?

Point 10 should bring the answer IMO..
Too many "ifs" or "is it "..
Examining would shed some light..
Of all white jackets I've seen in pics noone showed the fabric strips in the waistband like the blue jackets have , but I'm open for suggestions..
From these pics it's only guessing I'm afraid..

Jos.

[hs132]

Hello, I think the Gods of collecting are tormenting us with this jacket. Best, Bill

[Jos L C]

To make things a little more complicated..

here're 2 pics of Schuck, it is still my belief that he's wearing a rather touched 'dirty" white jacket that turned a shade of grey..
One pic shows the eagle and O2 straps, while the other is not..
Not the same jacket.., his lower rank shows a plain jacket,while his higher rank shows a complete..
I can't imagine this stuff was added later and the badges removed..


I've noticed we've a member in this forum who has good contacts with Schuck, how about asking ?
Maybe Schuck wants to join in ?
...that would be great !
...if lucky Herr Schuck still has his jacket somewhere in the attic..

Jos.