Help buying flight pants, opinions, pricing, etc.?

[juvatwad]

2

[juvatwad]

This I think is a repro, though well done. No one particular feature gives it away for certain (although the zipper material is a bit shiny), I just have a weird feeling about it. Nothing glows, the stitching seems right, etc. What is the general concensus regarding black Ri-Ri's? I have seen them on late war items I consider to be authentic, but maybe they were modern replacements in those instances.

[hs132]

Hello Juvatwad, very nice and desirable combat flown jackets. Your last pic is one of the fakes refered to by Jos, black zipps etc. You can tell by the shabby collar shape. Your jacket with the shoulder boards are unique. There are many pics of these with boards/straps but I havent seen one in a collection with them. Thats not saying much as I know of only 5 in collections and have handled 3 and viewed hundreds of war time pics. Are your jackets dated? And can you provide pics of the boards and attachments? I know of only one wartime ppic showing a windbreaker with the plastic RiRi zipp and that jacket has no eagle or O2 straps. Best, Bill

[hs132]

So for those of you who have flight pants in your collection already, what style is your favorite?

1) The light blue cloth example like I originally posted (except a real pair)?
2) The tan tropical pair like Scott mentioned
3) Blue leather "channel" pants
4) Brown leather pants
5) A one piece combi
6) That all the types I know...

And what is a fair price I should expect to pay for a real pair when I find one?

Hello John, I can count 8 different models of flight pants.
1) blue cloth unlined(most desirable)
2)blue cloth velour lined elect. heated(seen them sell on ebay for $1000)
3)blue cloth wool/fur lined($900+)
4)blue suede leather wool/fur lined($600+)
5)heavy brown leather elect heated($1000+)
6)gray lighter leather elect heated(late model) very hard to find
7)tropical Med salt/pepper color($800+)
8)White suede Bulgarian type with blue gray ribbed cloth edging
Cant realy give much info for exact prices. I have seen 2 sets of velour lined pants go forabout $1000 on ebay this year and have seen some advertised for $1600+. The relic hunter has a set I think for sale at this time and the virtual grenadier sold a set recently. There are a few with minor details that are more desirable. I would like a set with 2 snaps and a middle button on the front pocket flaps. Or ones with plastic RiRi zipps. Prices seem to be all over the place for the more common types. I own 4 differnet sets and have regretably passed on some of the velour lined types. Good luck searching. Best, Bill

[frank savage]

Hi Bill, and everyones!

I'd like to add that about the blu and white suede trousers, exist two version of both, with or w/out the legs pockets.

A question, Bill. When you say 'heavy brown leather elect heated trousers', you mean the late war leather trousers, with two snaps and centre plastic button on each leg pocket, isn't it?

Damn' they have start to fake also the flying gear... goodbye happy days (and fonz too!!!!!)

Cheers, Frank Savage

[juvatwad]

Are your jackets dated? And can you provide pics of the boards and attachments?

Bill,

Right now, here are the best pics I have of the boards, but I'll take more tonight. Neither jacket is dated or labelled. The eagle on the one with the plastic zip I believe was applied after the fact.

I ask about black zippers because of this:

http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/detail.asp?id=287

Ian

[juvatwad]

Sorry, wrong pic above. Here it is:

[RamJet]

@ Bill:

Can You explain me why the standard blue channel trousers without heating are the rarest examples (and the most expensive ones)? It should be the type which was produced in largest number, or am I completely wrong?

I have a tan one for my mannequin and wonder all the time why it is nearly impossible to get a good period blue one.

Have a nice day,
Steve

[mjfur]

I ask about black zippers because of this:

http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/detail.asp?id=287

Ian

It looks like a repro to me. Besides the black zips (bad) I've never seen a tan jacket with a full interior lining before.

I will also add that I have never seen a cotton interior lining on any original blue or tan summer weight flight jacket.

[mjfur]

@ Bill:

Can You explain me why the standard blue channel trousers without heating are the rarest examples (and the most expensive ones)? It should be the type which was produced in largest number, or am I completely wrong?

Have a nice day,
Steve

There's no doubt that thousands of summer weight flight jackets and channel pants were made, but they were also the easiest to wear on a daily basis post war. They were simply worn, torn and thrown away when no longer of any use.

Excluding the white wind breaker, the summer weight flight jackets and pants are in my opinion the most difficult to find and command the highest price.

Regards,
Mike

[WWIIBuff]

Flightpants

Thanks for that list Bill, that is a great help. The pair on Relichunter is the $1600 pair I referenced in the beginning of this thread, so your list gives me a great comparison. It is currently one of the few real pairs I've found out there with a price on it still.

Peter Whammond has a couple pairs on his site as well. Here is a tan pair (salt/pepper?) but I personally do not like this style that much because of the lack of pockets:

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftw...s/L024657.html

Am I correct to assume that the tropical med salt/pepper example you refer to is what had been called the tan example?

This pair is also on Peters site. It is a nice pair with a little damage, but the price is also "up there":

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftw...s/L026459.html

Regarding the elec/heated pants, are there pros or cons to displaying those on a mannequin? I assume electric vs non-electric makes no difference, but would just be a personal choice of the collector.

[Jos L C]

It looks like a repro to me. Besides the black zips (bad) I've never seen a tan jacket with a full interior lining before.

I will also add that I have never seen a cotton interior lining on any original blue or tan summer weight flight jacket.

Agree..

As a note: black plastic RiRi zippers did exist during war , late war flightboots have them ..

Jos.

[RamJet]

Regarding the elec/heated pants, are there pros or cons to displaying those on a mannequin? I assume electric vs non-electric makes no difference, but would just be a personal choice of the collector.

I think it's up to the collector how he will dress a mannequin. Of cause You could mix up everything, e.g. heated trousers with a lightweight summer jacket, but I prefer that it works together in time and theatre of war as well as I like matching colours for belt and holster for example. And I try to get all the stuff in a size which really fits the mannequin, as it would look not real if some parts were too wide and others too tight.

Here again a pic of my fighter pilot aimed at Italy in 1944 (I posted other pics of the guy before in WAF). He wears genuine Wehrmacht swim trousers under his flight clothing (which I think would be appropriate) and even has an original unused Luftwaffe year book planner from 1944 in one of his pockets. I like to add details, even if You cannot see them on display. It's for me, I like it that way, and I think all works together quite well.







And I found a pair of nearly unused brown fighter pilot gloves recently which will substitute the dark grey ones currently in his right thigh pocket. Will post some pics of the gloves in the "flight equipment" thread when I have better light to make photographs.

[hs132]

Hi Bill, and everyones!

I'd like to add that about the blu and white suede trousers, exist two version of both, with or w/out the legs pockets.

A question, Bill. When you say 'heavy brown leather elect heated trousers', you mean the late war leather trousers, with two snaps and centre plastic button on each leg pocket, isn't it?

Damn' they have start to fake also the flying gear... goodbye happy days (and fonz too!!!!!)

Cheers, Frank Savage

Hi Frank, I think the brown examples were the 1st type issued mid war and the gray to be late. Here is a pic showing both styles of pocket flaps. Best, Bill

[hs132]

Sorry, wrong pic above. Here it is:

Hello Ian, thanks for the followup pics, most desrable. I agree with Mike F. on the empire jacket and pants(not on the origionality, Im unsure and a consensus is needed). War time pics of that set are hard to come by. An answer by consensus on that type of jacket being lined 1st and then black zipps would need to met. My jacket is unlined except for the sleeves. I havent seen or handled a set with lining or black zipps but that dosent exclude their existance as Jos noted boots come with black zipps. The empire set otherwise looks matched and the pants look fine. I dont believe or not sure if these trop jackets in all cases left the factory with an applied breast eagle. I have seen war time pics without eagles, mine is hand sown applied and have seen examples where the eagle is machine stitched. Bill