Interesting NCO Summer Tunic/Pants - Gold Pres. CCC Clasp Holder

[Johnny R]

Nice pair, the first matching set I have ever seen. It looks almost identical in weave/material but maybe heavier to this White tunic I have which I believe is also field made. It is a type of flax linen IMO.

[Johnny R]

If it is heavier it may be this type which is a duck.

[Johnny R]

This is unissued but it becomes softer from washing and wear.

[vonStubben]

Wow very interesting set manufactured in somekind of burlap material... with matching pants! Interesting the Gold CCC (extra hook) theory! Nice combat set! Provided the shoulderstraps are original to the tunic, perhaps based on the Infantry Regiment number (5) you can try to find out who the recipient was?

That is what I was hoping too but I have Manfred Dorr's book on all the Gold CCC recepients and I can't find anyone in the HEER from a 5th regiment.

[vonStubben]

If it is heavier it may be this type which is a duck.

It's not that heavy. You can see from the pictures that light can be seen through the material. Although strongly woven it is very "airy".

[Scott A. Hess]

Does anyone remember about 8-10 years ago when these tunics, all but a bit better made were turning up around on every corner? I had one myself, every one I saw was an nco, and MOST had some sort of trade badge affixed to the arm bottle green collars and unit numbers on the boards. MIne was an Nco arty. All the insignia on these tunics was good, this is the first set with pants I've seen, Im trying to keep an open mind about these tunics. One big problem I always had wiht these is that they all looked like they were field made or unit done, but none of them looked like they had ever been worn, which is quite odd, why have a speical tunic made up out of Russian zelt or other light weight material, and then never use it? I sold mine, they all could be original, andI could be dead wrong, distinct possibilty, I just became very suspect of them.

[vonStubben]

Does anyone remember about 8-10 years ago when these tunics, all but a bit better made were turning up around on every corner? I had one myself, every one I saw was an nco, and MOST had some sort of trade badge affixed to the arm. All the insignia on these tunics was good, this is the first set with pants I've seen, Im trying to keep an open mind about these tunics.

I've never seen another like it in 41 years and I do get around (USA, Europe, England).

Also, with the Russian canvas and other materials seen in such field made items, they all tend to be either NCO or Officers grades.

[Scott A. Hess]

I've never seen another like it in 41 years and I do get around (USA, Europe, England).

Also, with the Russian canvas and other materials seen in such field made items, they all tend to be either NCO or Officers grades.

I get around too, yours could be good, but I've seen about a dozen configured just like it. Maybe they are all good, and I have no idea what Im talking about. My honest belief? Someone was making these things up. You can get all the insignia, hardware, thread at any show. Thats just my opinion for what its worth. Like I said, I could be wrong. I sold mine, because I began to see them floating around at every show, on almost eveyr dealers site, and something struck me as quite odd about them. All were made the same way, variations of basic material, and showed no wear. I have no doubt field tunics were made. As I said,Im trying to keep an open mind about them,heck I bought one myself, they were not that expensive, I believed in them, and then, just had doubts. As I said, I've been wrong before. Its just if you think logically re these tunics, they are very very easy to manufacture, and trust me, there are people out there who can put them together in a day.

[Johnny R]

Glenn McGinnis and I made all of them on Holiday in 1990.

[NickG]

I used to own one in the early 80's that was made from "mottled" polizei material (also used for LW jump smocks) also NCO rank with dark green collar + tresse and in nice condition.

Why are so many of these NCO uniforms?
My theory is that these were cheaper than tailor made pieces and therefor more attractive for NCO's who wanted something different for prestige ... these being affordable because of the inferior quality, both in material and in cut (NCO's would pay or offer a favor to a company tailor to make these...).
So they could get away with ordering/wearing such custom uniforms and not get in trouble with officers (who often preferred and wore better quality custom tunics, even for field use!)

Why are so many in prestine condition eventhough these were intended for field wear? Don't know...perhaps these were spares or summer uniforms that were sent home during the winter (or KIA returns) and survived that way?

[Scott A. Hess]

Glenn McGinnis and I made all of them on Holiday in 1990.

What does that add to the debate? Nothing really, hey, if you like these tunics, buy them buy the gross, they are out there, I can assure you.

[Johnny R]

Here is a picture of one in wear August 1941. There is no debate.

[Johnny R]

The wool uniforms were too heavy to wear in the warm weather and unpopular. There probably were hundreds of thousands of lightweight tunics made. Unlike issue clothing these were retruned to families of MIA and KIA. It is not surprising there are many of these out there to me or that many are in very good condition.

[vonStubben]

For what it's worth, both the tunic and pants have ground in soiling. The tunic is soiled around the shoulders, the edges of the cuffs and the middle of the back (like where the center of the Y straps would sit), the bottom of the pants as well as the leg cuffs are dirty, especially at the leg cuffs where it looks like the hem hung below a pair of gaiters and got ground in dirt and muck on them.

[Scott A. Hess]

JH, you can show me all the pics you like, period pics, of them being worn. Im not doubting or contesting that they were made. however, where my doubt lies is whether or not the ones TODAY being offered up as original are in fact pre 45 manufacture, so pics of a soldier in sourthern russia or wherever while nice and DO show that they existed, which I dont dispute, do nothing to advance whether as I maintain the plethora of them which I have seen may not all be original. MY concerns remain the same.
1. I've seen at least a dozen of them, ALL
2 Made out of light weight russian zelt, grey/green cotton material
3. ALL NCO
4 ALL bottle neck green collars and boards
5 ALL had unit numbers on the boards
6 .MOST had trade specialist heer badges on the sleeve
7. ALL appeard never to have been worn.

There in lies my concerns. as I said my gut feeling is that they were being made up at some point, as you could obtain all the insignia, hardware buttons thread very easily and cheap, and they were selling for 3-5 hundred dollars. I suspect someone had a supply or supplies of various russian material or other material.

So, they are all either legit, or post war manufactured. I cant prove one way or the other, I just know if I saw over the span of 8 years or so 12 supposedly field made SS jackets, all showing no wear, etc, I would certainly become suspect of them. Thats just being cautious. Im not making this stuff up just to yank anyone's chain or ruin someone's day, its just my gut feeling. As I said, its just my opinion, if you think it worth absolutely nothing, discount it, ignore it, and dont be bothered with it.