number two.this color was identified as brown-grey
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Number 3Comment
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number 4.this is probably mouse grey.Comment
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I just found these next two pictures interesting.The color suggests they are HBT.But the material reminds me of the green material used on certain cotton coveralls. Again difficult to tell from B/W pics. Any thoughts?Comment
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Thats all.Comment
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The original receipt from Weitze.Comment
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Since we've had several threads on denim/hbt wraps I just wanted to update this one.Heres the RBN and some of the size markings. As you can see ,when the jacket was shortened they were covered.WR JimLast edited by djpool; 09-12-2007, 09:06 AM.Comment
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well some items from Weitze are NOT ALWAYS GOOD,so wait for another options,
but soory your wrap in not that I like,maybe its good or maybe not,hard to say.
for me,and I colectet 17 years.this material is funy
regards
ArekComment
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Originally posted by besslein View Postwell some items from Weitze are NOT ALWAYS GOOD,so wait for another options,
but soory your wrap in not that I like,maybe its good or maybe not,hard to say.
for me,and I colectet 17 years.this material is funy
regards
Arek
HI AREK,
THE Weitze bill was only to establish a timeline of when I got it- 1992. The large influx of fakes came onto the market around 1996-1997. As far as I know this one is completely different in manufacture from the known fakes. Its also correct in the way the collar is constructed as well as the way its stamped (the fakes aren't). I'm also fairly certain that one complete jacket is in another well known collection. I also included comments of two respected researchers of Panzer uniforms Bob Edwards and Mike Pruett. George Peterson a respected collector has also seen the jacket and liked it. But further comments are certainly solicited. WR JimLast edited by djpool; 01-17-2007, 12:52 PM.Comment
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Well time for a further update. I know this is a controversial piece so I feel its important to document it here for future reference. My only intent is to let collectors know there are grey green wraps out there. Whether you believe its real or not is your call; based on the pictures and comments provided.
Here are some pictures from the HSC book on German Soldiers(published 1995). Its a 1st Model wrap in grey green cloth. I realize HSC has been linked to a lot of fakes. There has been some discussion that they put fakes in the book to help them sell them. Of course there are a lot of original pieces in the book too. Unfortunately their reputation makes everything suspect especially the rare items. From the few pics I certainly can't say the item is original.
However if it is a fake used to salt the market then certainly someone has seen one. I personally haven't. So I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has seen one or owns one. Pictures would be great.
The pictures from the book.
WR JimComment
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last oneComment
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hello,
Jim,
on this link, i believe you'll find 2 pictures of an example of this kind of wrap in grey green cloth, worn by oblt Ludwig in Normandy in 1944 :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=hbt+wrap
the one you showed came from a book where "HSC" society furnished several pieces,
but not all of them, the correct french editor is "histoire et collections".
the book was made with articles, called "gros-plan", who were published before in a rewiew called "militaria magazine", same editor.
the main author was the same for both, at this time employed by "HSC" society (i don't know if it is still the case today), society whose "bad reputation"for saling original stuff AND fakes has ever been pointed as you noticed it.
those articles included lots of pieces who came from private collectors,
most of them were at this time members of a french collector association, called "de bello collection", which still exist today.
at the raise of this rewiew, directed by executive members of this association at this time,
the communication "bulletin" of this association was included in it, but this is not the case anymore since several years.
it explains why some members lended (for free of course) some of their own stuff for articles in the rewiew, including those "gros-plans".
there was sometime a mixt of origins in the same "gros-plan", it was the case in the one showing the wrap you asked infos about,
and in a lot of those "gros-plans".
so you are particulary right when you wrote :
"There has been some discussion that they put fakes in the book to help them sell them. Of course there are a lot of original pieces in the book too. Unfortunately their reputation makes everything suspect especially the rare items."
just my 2 cents,
send me pm for further details if you wish.
derkaLast edited by derka; 01-18-2007, 08:42 AM.Comment
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Hello Derka,Originally posted by derka View Post
Thank you for the interesting information.
The article on the wrap was done by Jean de Lagarde. I don't know him but have seen many articles by him. In fact most articles in the book have his name. I take it hes a prominent collector in France.
I always enjoyed Militaria Magazine. I have a number of issues in French.Also have all the english versions. Too bad the english Mag didn't take off.
I'm familiar with the Ludwig photos. Unfortunately its B/W. But I do believe that Grey-green was used.
Again many thanks for the info.
WR JimComment
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Excellente analyse Derka !
Amitiés de LaurentComment
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