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    #106
    17 stands for Celle/Hannover from Abschnitt XVI, Oberabschnitt Mitte, according the adress-list from October 1, 1937.
    Great to see all those nice Sturmbann-flags.

    Comment

      #107
      SS-SBF's known to have survived WW2 ???

      Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
      17 stands for Celle/Hannover from Abschnitt XVI, Oberabschnitt
      Mitte, according the adress-list from October 1, 1937.
      Great to see all those nice Sturmbann-flags.
      WS:
      Of ~300 SS-SBF's, 25 are known (by me) to have survived WW2.

      (below) My list from WAF "wmtf" thread t=427262.
      SS-SBF (Sturmbannfahnen), 25 known, via photo.
      S1. I/5, 1st pattern, formerly *OFW via Klenau Munich Auction
      S2. Signal Bn 4, 2nd pattern, *=photo confirmed, OFW c.1975
      S3. Signal Bn 14, 2nd pattern, *book, held by visor hat guy.
      S4. I/17, 1st pattern, *EA on WAF
      S5. III/43, 1st pattern, *for sale on WAF at ~$18K-USD
      S6. II/47, 1st pattern, *O-J on WAF
      S7. III/55, *walker flag book
      S8. III/59, * believed to be one sold in H-Historica Auction
      S9. II/72, 2nd pattern, *OFW c.1975
      S10. III/82, 1st pattern, *Silesien, sold 1986 $2600
      S11. I/101, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S12. III/101, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S13. III/104, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S14. I/106, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S15. III/106, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S16. I/107, 2nd pattern, *OFW c.1975, traded off
      S17. III/4+Skull (TK-SS), 2nd pattern, *BH on WAF
      S18. II/4+Skull (TK-SS), 2nd pattern, *DS on WAF
      S19. II/SS2 (VT-SS), 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
      S20. I/103, 2nd pattern, $2.5K Manion 1994. *Silesien-WAF
      S21. I/16, 1st pattern - center & fringe, *OFW observed (-*-)
      S22. II/16, 1st pattern - center & fringe, *RH observed (-*-)
      S23. Signals Bn 10 (Nachrichten), 2nd pattern, *paulj on WAF
      S24. I/45, "Neisse" (Oppeln),       1st pattern - fringe, *paulj on ".
      S25. III/16 "Breslau", 1st pattern, ^paulj post #157, (-*-)
      (-*-) =       corner patch on one side, removed by Czech movie studio?
      sigpic
      .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

      Comment

        #108
        Hello,

        I have a question.

        A collector asked/said me about :

        Sepp, only the first model of Pole where used by the early typ of flags.
        So I took a look to this thread.

        What -WE- can see is:
        take a look to site 7 and look the last two pictures .

        I can see that in use by the two -early- flags , is 1`st a model of pole from typ one.
        Second and larger picture show´s us a early flag with pole typ two.

        Oldflagw., maybe you can tell us more about the second and first model of pole´s and how it was used?

        It is only for my knowledge.

        Best regards Sebastian

        Comment

          #109
          about SS-SBF trooping poles ???

          Originally posted by Ojoneso View Post
          ...question...
          take a look to site 7 and look the last two pictures .
          I can see that in use by the two -early- flags , is 1`st
          a model of pole from typ one. Second and larger picture
          show´s us a early flag with pole typ two.
          Oldflagw., maybe you can tell us more about the second
          and first model of pole´s and how it was used? ...
          Best regards Sebastian
          Hello Sebastian:
          Not quite following your "site 7" SS pole picture reference.
          Period photos do seem to show that the ~22cm center pole
          metal joint section did vary in location relative to lower pole
          flag mounting ring by the width of the flag fringe. That is to
          say that the fringe bottom on the 1st pattern SS-SBF was flush
          with the pole joint top, and on the 2nd pattern SS-SBF the fringe
          bottom was above the pole joint top by the fringe width. I suspect
          that overall pole length is the same on both the first and second
          SS-SBF. And that the bottom wood 125cm section is shorter on the
          2nd SS-SBF to adjust for the extra fringe spacing width added to
          the 2nd pattern SS-SBF pole, as noted in the following photo study.
          sigpic
          .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

          Comment

            #110
            Hello ,

            I think it is not the rule.
            And also I think we can´t say that a pole has such norms!

            OK length material etc.!

            But where is the crossing of 1´st to second?
            And witsch time?

            Look I meant the last picture:



            I think is different to the first pattern and second pattern pole?

            It is more than the first one and less to the second one.

            I think it is not correct, to put a pole and a flag in a norm.

            Best regards Sebastian

            Comment

              #111
              SS-SBF will slide on the pole ...

              Originally posted by Ojoneso View Post
              ...I meant the last picture:
              ...more than the first one and less to the second one
              ...Sebastian
              "SS Oath" photo shows a first pattern flag (static swastika),
              but it is horizontal, or nearly pointed down in position. IMO
              only the top ring is screwed to the pole, so the flag will slide
              on the pole. In other words, the flag will not be fully down on
              the pole until in the vertical trooping position. As such IMO the
              cited "SS Oath" photo is not a good example to judge the true
              spacing of the bottom ring to top of the "Z" slotted pole joint.
              OFW
              sigpic
              .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

              Comment

                #112
                Hi Oldfl.

                that is not correct.

                Look my flag ,the rings are original sewn!

                My last ring is also screwed.
                Another early flag what I know, also last ring is screwed.

                Out from this, I think the flag can't slide.!

                And the distance is on the picture definitely more.
                So you know witsch time was the crossing first to second?

                Beat regards Sebastian

                Comment

                  #113
                  Picture:



                  same distance like the last posted picture

                  Seb.

                  Comment

                    #114
                    again:








                    Comment

                      #115
                      more about poles ???

                      Originally posted by Ojoneso View Post
                      ...Look my flag ,the rings are original sewn!
                      My last ring is also screwed. ...
                      ...Sebastian
                      Lower ring area on your first pattern SS-SBF appears
                      to have been repaired, and the ring replaced and/or
                      reattached. Likewise, IMO your flag is on a 2nd pattern
                      pole, based on the fringe not being flush with the joint.
                      Not aware of any surviving SS-SBF on its original pole.
                      OFW
                      Last edited by oldflagswanted; 04-18-2012, 02:38 PM.
                      sigpic
                      .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                      Comment

                        #116
                        Hello,

                        easy words and answer.....


                        Maybe it is a second pole I don't know.
                        But I wrote : Pole and flag they are put together by ME.

                        But the ring is defenetly original sawn!!
                        I know a other one like this.

                        And also we can see by the example waretime pictures here,
                        that we can find second pattern flags on first pole
                        And in inverse too.

                        Regards Sebastian

                        Comment

                          #117
                          Am no expert on various rings, if re-attached, etc

                          But flag itself is an intensely historical item in my opinion. I'd rather have that then all the threads of Iron Crosses or SS cap badges.

                          Comment

                            #118
                            Originally posted by Ojoneso View Post
                            again:








                            Interesting image of Wolff with a Japanese dignitary.

                            Comment

                              #119
                              Ditto that ...

                              Originally posted by Mark C. Yerger View Post
                              ...flag itself is an intensely historical item in my
                              opinion. I'd rather have that then all the threads
                              of Iron Crosses or SS cap badges.
                              MCY:
                              Ditto that, based on having owned 4 of 25 known surviving SS-SBFs.
                              ......
                              (below) some of my SA & SS-SBF corner patch flags on display years ago now.
                              ......
                              Last edited by oldflagswanted; 04-19-2012, 03:06 AM.
                              sigpic
                              .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                              Comment

                                #120
                                Just being a researcher/writer now I don't collect. My period material is book/photo, etc related for that. But look as have a decent amount of knowledge, logic, and have seen a lot of various categories of militaria over 30+ years.

                                In 9 years here have seen exactly 6 things I'd want to own, all unavailable or miles out of my financial ability. 1 was a figure a modeler made in the modeling section here, so value, etc not a factor in what grabs me !!

                                Didn't see this till now on e-stand. Hope the owner gets whatever life change he wishes. I want this, and if just wanting has any value I'd own it:

                                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=577612

                                And to Old Flag Wanted, if I owned 4 as you did, I'd have no need to ever want anything else !!

                                Comment

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