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1936 S/42 Luger with two matching clips help please

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    #16
    I haven't seen one legit for sale for a long time, but I am not in the Luger market at the moment. Couple of years ago I sold mine byf41 with two matching mags for $4500 while ones with single mags were around 2500.
    On the other hand can you point a legit one with two mags that is not significantly much more than one with single mag?

    Jack

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      #17
      Apparently the dealers haven't heard that two matching mags don't add any value.

      As to adding no value, show a two matching mag pistol for the price of a single matching mag pistol.

      Comment

        #18
        Take a picture of the base facing the camera so we can see if the sides of the base are higher than the middle. The base should be level across and most of the times when they are scrubbed and restamped you can see that the middle of the base is lower than the sides.

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          #19
          Originally posted by hatleyj View Post
          Take a picture of the base facing the camera so we can see if the sides of the base are higher than the middle. The base should be level across and most of the times when they are scrubbed and restamped you can see that the middle of the base is lower than the sides.
          With the method it looks to be ground I don't think there will be that much height difference. I would rather look from the side to see if that circular part is really circular or flatter at the bottom. Also when you look at that square area where the cross and 63 proof are located, edges seems to be sharper lacking their roundness like in other posted examples. That would indicate material removal.

          Jack

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            #20
            Originally posted by cossack1648 View Post
            I haven't seen one legit for sale for a long time, but I am not in the Luger market at the moment. Couple of years ago I sold mine byf41 with two matching mags for $4500 while ones with single mags were around 2500.
            On the other hand can you point a legit one with two mags that is not significantly much more than one with single mag?

            Jack
            If you sold an 85% s/42 with two mags for $4500 I am shocked ! They have a hard time with two matching mags, tool, and a holster getting 4K for a 90% + gun on gunbroker. Last big reno show a shooter grade s/42 with two matching mags was about 2k asking vs $1500/1700 with one matching mag. Now high grade guns with two matching mags, tool, and holster will change that, but if someone paid you 2k for a matching mag they were a fool.

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              #21
              I think in addition to the grinding and polishing, that the shape of the "M" is off.
              So, what's the consensus, I still say the mags are restamped.

              Comment

                #22
                Ground off and restamped without a doubt. Look at the absence of patina/ dings/ scrapes. You can also see some deeper marks/ pitting which have been mostly ground off. And those are also still visible on the borders of the ground down area.

                Talking about value, percentage of finish, etc, etc, is also rather subjective. And moot..
                Willi

                Preußens Gloria!

                sigpic

                Sapere aude

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                  #23
                  IMO the two "matching" mags shown have been very carefully ground/buffed/polished so as to remove the original SN's and markings, then struck with modern dies in an effort to make it appear that the magazines originally came from the Mauser factory in their present as-altered condition. Attached for reference are the matching mags to a S/42 1938 rig that I have. I believe that my S/42 1938 rig is 100% original as issued but, admittedly, I can not trace it directly to a WWII veteran as a war trophy. Rather, the person I bought it from ordered it in the early 1950's as simply a "German Luger pistol" for $50 from an individual seller who advertised it in the "For Sale" ads in the back of The American Rifleman magazine (with no seller photos back in those days).

                  It would be interesting to see side views of the magazine bases in question; I bet the bottom portion (where the numbers + markings are) is no longer perfectly round - it will be distorted from the metal removal that was necessitated to eliminate the original markings. Also, look very closely at the mag base retaining pin; I bet you can see that it has been removed. With as-original mags, the base will virtually never have been removed in German military service. Thus, a removed mag base is pretty much always something that a post-war user has done and (when coupled with other questionable aspects) can help confirm that mag bases have been altered in an effort to "enhance" appeal to modern collectors.
                  7 Photos

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Alan,
                    Beautiful 1938 S/42 with two original matching magazines. Had to be one of the last produced in 1938.

                    Tom

                    Comment

                      #25


                      Certainly looks like material has been removed in this image....
                      Anyway, why would that area of the base be bright and shiney and completely different. I have never seen a mag base like that and i don't expect anyone else has. Looks like it was done yesterday....





                      Comment

                        #26
                        Other than the bogus mags it looks like a nice gun with all numbers shown matching. I bet the seller didn't disclose the buffed/re-stamped mags so you certainly have grounds to ask for a full refund. If you otherwise really like the piece, maybe you can get a decent "rebate" then look for a correct mag close to your gun serial number. Most Lugers on Legacy and Simpsons don't have mags with matching serial numbers...it's a nice bonus though. There are databases on two Luger forums where folks list mag numbers they want to sell/trade for those they need..first one you need to register to see:

                        http://forum.lugerforum.com/index.ph...255988f41bd4b1

                        https://luger.gunboards.com/forumdis...my-Navy-Police

                        Pretty lowlife what someone did to these mags to hose a fellow collector!

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Yes - my first reaction upon seeing this situation was the same: a darn shame that someone ruined 2 apparently otherwise nice original magazines in the course of creating the bogus "matching" rig.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Hello Everyone,

                            Sorry that I have been off the forum for a few days. When I last checked in, on 8/21/20, I had just a few responses to this thread that shared the view that the mags had been re-stamped. I really appreciate the comments and the time that has been taken to make posts. Here are a couple of more photos as requested. The "re-stamped" 36 mags are compared to an untouched 1937 rig mag. Not a lot was removed, at least in my opinion ? Let me know if you would like to see any other pictures.

                            Regards,
                            Tim

                            Capture A.JPG Capture B.JPG Capture C.JPG

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                              #29
                              I agree that whoever did the magazine renumbering was a real pro . . . he was super careful and was able to get rid of the original markings with only a minimal amount of distortion to the profile of the mag base.

                              BTW: Your 1936 P.08 is a nice looking gun with honest wear. Just toss the faked mags into your junk box and replace them with correct mis-matched originals and you will be good to go. On this point, I've noticed a bunch of nice original WWII-era P.08 mag bases on Gun Broker. I have no idea where these mag bases come from, but in the past I have seen a wide variety of WWII German gun parts that come from overseas sources where the guns were destroyed but some enterprising person was able to save a few bits and pieces for resale. In any event, the mag bases on GB look entirely correct and original, so perhaps you might find replacement original mag bases (that are correct for 1936 Mauser production P.08) that can be used to restore the faked-up mags that came with your gun? Good luck!

                              Comment

                                #30
                                The strawed parts on that Luger look very bright and shiny and almost too good. A closer examination might be wise to determine if they have been re-strawed. The white stuff in the Gesichert is not original.
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