Rare SS Pack Prototype Dagger

[den70]

I have stated multiple times in this thread that I have not disassembled the dagger, and I will not disassemble it.

Also, there were multiple comments earlier in this thread debating the disassembly and how that would ruin this piece if so. Now you all want me to just crack it open? No thanks.

Rohmdagger, your dagger really shows traces of disassembling and there is nothing wrong with that. If you consider disassembling it, you will give your dagger a very big chance, and the more you deny it, the less people and for less money will want to buy it. I know that your dagger is actively traded by intermediaries or new owners. But with your every such answer, people`s faith in it disappears. Surely you can disregard my words. This is your dagger, your money and your choice.

[phild]

Rohmdagger, your dagger really shows traces of disassembling and there is nothing wrong with that. If you consider disassembling it, you will give your dagger a very big chance, and the more you deny it, the less people and for less money will want to buy it. I know that your dagger is actively traded by intermediaries or new owners. But with your every such answer, people`s faith in it disappears. Surely you can disregard my words. This is your dagger, your money and your choice.

There is nothing that can possibly be seen or photographed with the disassembled parts that will change anyone’s mind, either way, on this tread. My assessment was that it has not been apart since the war period. I do agree that it should be disassembled and documented, not by the current owner.

[BobI]

I would love to see the tang and crossguards internally, however, there is no reason to take it apart. Whoever buys it will not care if it is inspected internally either. Lastly, I would not want the wrong person to take it apart and scar the nut and or crossguard. So, please do not take this dagger apart!
Bob

[JR.]

At this point the thread has outrun it's value for all intent and purposes IMO.
By now allows trolling behavior and ridicule posts to be made for the sole purpose
of derailing the discussion in any way possible.

The score ended up 5-0 in favor of those who for what ever reason were
not convince, or simply didn't want to be convinced. And that's fine. It wouldn't

be any fun if we all agreed all the time. Would it ?


1 point awarded for a pro member's opinion being sanctioned because of violation.
1 point awarded for another member doing the same.
And 3 points awarded for a 14 year member of WAF now apparently expelled.

Time to put the lock on it, post it as pinned, and move on. Agree......to disagree.



to all.



JR

[den70]

I would love to see the tang and crossguards internally, however, there is no reason to take it apart. Whoever buys it will not care if it is inspected internally either. Lastly, I would not want the wrong person to take it apart and scar the nut and or crossguard. So, please do not take this dagger apart!
Bob

I am surprised to hear it. When you consider buying a house or a car you definitely examine it. Why are you against it in this case? This dagger costs like a good car or a small apartment. And all who write not to disassemble the dagger, did it many times. Bob, didn’t you dismantle daggers? Or maybe JR didn't do that? Moreover, everybody can see traces of disassembling on the upper guard of the dagger. It does not matter who did it or when. The only important thing is that the dagger had been already disassembled by someone, and if this process is carried out once again by a specialist with right tools, nothing wrong will happen to it. Or do you think disassembling can make it cheaper in 10 times or cause a breakage? It is ridiculous. The only thing you’ll get rejecting its disassembling is that those who do not believe in the dagger get confirmation that unpleasant surprises are waiting for them inside of it. Without disassembling of the dagger, further discussion makes no sense.

[Serge M.]

1 point awarded for a pro member's opinion being sanctioned because of violation.
1 point awarded for another member doing the same.
And 3 points awarded for a 14 year member of WAF now apparently expelled.

Time to put the lock on it, post it as pinned, and move on. Agree......to disagree.



to all.



JR

A most most interesting rare dagger have surfaced and presented on this thread.
Information and forum contribution continues to be added, pro and con, on the subject dagger.
I see no reason to close this most viewed thread with a huge contribution from the community.

In the end, the dagger will stand on it's own merit, regardless of who here is a believer or not.

Moderator sanctions administered for violations is 'Off-Topic' and questions related to these actions will not be discussed or tolerated. As it in itself is a violation of forum rules.

Let the discussions continue without further ado.

-Serge

[tanker]

Serge M.
I agree. You would think with such a dagger, a detail inspection (internal and external) would be welcomed. The only conclusion for not wanting that inspection is that it would show it to be a fake or fabrication.
The only ones wanting to shut the thread down are ones that don't want the truth to come out. My opinion only.

[Bulldog]

A big reluctance to disassemble this dagger and an effort to end the thread has for me just cast a lot more doubt upon this dagger. Rohmdagger, are you sure the "well known collector of this type of material" you mentioned in post 114 who "inspected it in person" did not internally inspect this dagger?

Russ.

[RohmDagger]

A big reluctance to disassemble this dagger and an effort to end the thread has for me just cast a lot more doubt upon this dagger. Rohmdagger, are you sure the "well known collector of this type of material" you mentioned in post 114 who "inspected it in person" did not internally inspect this dagger?

Russ.

I am sure that the dagger has not been disassembled by me or the other person who inspected it.

[tanker]

Who is this "well known collector of this type of material" ? If he is such an authority on the subject and has deemed this original without disassembly, he surely would not mind being identified and would probably like the the advertisement and his name associated with it.

[RohmDagger]

Who is this "well known collector of this type of material" ? If he is such an authority on the subject and has deemed this original without disassembly, he surely would not mind being identified and would probably like the the advertisement and his name associated with it.

One person has seen it in hand, two others have seen the photos of it, all of them were prior to this posting, and all gave it praise.

I am not going to disclose any of these people, however I am certain that they are aware of this posting and can do so if they wish.

[tanker]

What are their credentials to make such a determination? Are they dealers, collectors or what? Not trying to be difficult but only trying to help and understand.

One person has seen it in hand, two others have seen the photos of it, all of them were prior to this posting, and all gave it praise.

I am not going to disclose any of these people, however I am certain that they are aware of this posting and can do so if they wish.

[Frogprince]

I am surprised to hear it. When you consider buying a house or a car you definitely examine it. Why are you against it in this case? This dagger costs like a good car or a small apartment. And all who write not to disassemble the dagger, did it many times. Bob, didn’t you dismantle daggers? Or maybe JR didn't do that? Moreover, everybody can see traces of disassembling on the upper guard of the dagger. It does not matter who did it or when. The only important thing is that the dagger had been already disassembled by someone, and if this process is carried out once again by a specialist with right tools, nothing wrong will happen to it. Or do you think disassembling can make it cheaper in 10 times or cause a breakage? It is ridiculous. The only thing you’ll get rejecting its disassembling is that those who do not believe in the dagger get confirmation that unpleasant surprises are waiting for them inside of it. Without disassembling of the dagger, further discussion makes no sense.

Well stated. As were some others, you have highlighted the hypocrisy that unfortunately is sometimes seen where "controversial" items are under scrutiny. Purchasing something only to find out that it is (even if it's just partially) bogus. And the very sick feeling that you get in your stomach when know that you have been "taken" (polite word) is not easily forgotten. Fred

[JK53]

As someone who knows nothing about daggers,
A.What is it ? Prototype/Christmas or early issue ?
B.When was it made ?
C.Was it issued and worn ?
D.How many would there be ?
Cheers

Still no answers
Post 29 shows the screws in the scabbard at the bottom fitting why's one different from the others.
Everyone is happy with the green patina ? Which is meant to be ?
Just trying to learn

[phild]

Still no answers
Post 29 shows the screws in the scabbard at the bottom fitting why's one different from the others.
Everyone is happy with the green patina ? Which is meant to be ?
Just trying to learn

The green patina is worth mentioning and I can only say that the area that this dagger has been in since 1945 is one of High heat 7-8 months of the year and high humidity during those months. Furthermore most homes were not centrally heated or cooled until the 1970s and many are still not today. That combined with what the dagger was stored with or in will drive the nature of the patina and corrosion. The fittings are of course a nickel, copper and zinc alloy. The green is obviously a primary reaction of the copper in that alloy.

As for the sheath screws, pommel nut and top cross guard, none of those showed any hint of shiney or recently disturbed metal.

I would not see it as odd if these early daggers were taken apart a number of times for fitting and to be used as pattern examples. I don’t know. The look of grunge and settling in the grip seam with the fittings, the blade marriage with the lower crossguard stuck me as having been that way “forever”.

Back in the 70s and even dacades later I would see many political and Wehrmacht daggers disassembled at dealer tables by potential buyers and or dealers. Could hardly imagine that now given the modem collector culture.