Rare SS Pack Prototype Dagger

[JR.]

JR, thanks for pointing out those features, what are your thoughts on the grip eagle, have you ever seen another one like this which is completely different to the design normally seen on the "prototype" daggers.

Russ.

From the beginning of the collecting community and starting with the returning vets who brought these items home, the existence of this style of dagger which started this thread, has been unknown to everyone until last week.



Like the SA Christmas SA and precursor to the actual standard Rohm production which started in February of 1934, both Pack & Eickhorn no doubt tried out a few different prototypes. And even when Eickhorn decided to manufacture the large oval trademark with the Rohm dedication, they weren't satisfied with it. That quickly evolved to the small double oval that collectors are well familiar with.



This SS dagger is one of the prototypes. Am I familiar with the motto, eagle, and some minor other components? Hell no. Nobody is, and that's why their scared to death of it!



It doesn't conform to this, that, in a reference, period paper work blah, blah, blah,etc. And neither did the Sepp Dietrich sword either, until they found proof of it in a couple photos.



Though I have begrudgingly at times to respect the opinions of democrats, liberals, and other collector when I knew that they were wrong, I will always listen and hear them out.



This SS dagger is the real deal basis on my 40 years experience in the hobby.



JR

[Frogprince]

Unlikely you will ever see another one and I wouldn't want to be the caretaker of this dagger either, it is bound to be a minefield. Somehow, everytime I hear the word '' prototype '', I get the goosebumps. It could very well be the rarest of all TR dagger and the Rohm inscription is also very unique, never seen anything like it either.
Now the big question is, who will have enough guts to buy it ?
Just putting a value on this is nearly impossible.

The dagger has clearly IMO been taken apart and reassembled, postwar although it's hard to say just when. Would a new owner have the guts to take it apart and see just how it's made so that it could be compared to some very early Pack daggers that everybody agrees on? Fred

[JR.]

The dagger has clearly IMO been taken apart and reassembled, postwar although it's hard to say just when. Would a new owner have the guts to take it apart and see just how it's made so that it could be compared to some very early Pack daggers that everybody agrees on? Fred

There is absolutely no reason to:

1. spin off the pommel nut
2. take of the crossguards
3. cut the grip in half
4. dig out the emblems
5. pull out the throat
6. test the paint
7. remove the verdigris

Or any other crazy test to prove authenticity.

[BobI]

On patina, I own a pawn shop as well as my other business and I do have a jewelry section. I have seen enough artificial patina there. I have also seen/owned a countless number of daggers many of which were veteran purchased. I am certain this nicotine patina is extremely old and not artificial.
I have also seen countless daggers in which the veteran or at least "someone" took them apart or tightened them before they made their way to collector hands.
I would easily pay 10K for this dagger as it sits, maybe/probably more. I doubt I would hit the numbers it will sell for but I do like what I see more then I do not.
Bob

[damasco]

Humor me as most have this thread..
What if the E. Pack etching records still survived the ravages of time from the late 20s into the 40s.

As all there etching production would be listed from one of a kind damascus presentation pieces were they made only 1 of to 500+ production items.

This would be absolute yes or no if these were ever made. Correct?
Or would the (opinions) of the posters on this thread be held to a higher level than complete period documents..
You must remember period original documents do not have agendas. But the poster of this dagger has....
That is all of course if these documents survived.. Boy that would be real cool if someone had these.. Right?? Oh, but what would happen if this type of SS dagger is not listed?? Would that end this bad joke?? What people would do for $60,000.00 as posted that this thing is worth (a opinion only..)
As I said for a novice he sure knows how to flog this on other forums and moves on when the (opinions) are not the ones he wants to hear because that ruins the sale..
Forums are not for education it seems they are to further agendas ..
Bob your opinion or my opinion of this item does not change what it is..
Just think if those records are out there what a wealth of inside factual information.. And damming factual information..
P.S. Unknown to JR and 40 years of experience the original artwork for the Sepp D. sword is in a private collection along with many other one off things bought from the firm that etched the blade....
I know people who are (professional) musicians for 40 years and they are not even close to mastering there instrument..
But they are always quick to say how long they have been playing..
It can be the same with studying other things.. Some people understand what they see some never will.

[Frogprince]

There is absolutely no reason to:

1. spin off the pommel nut
2. take of the crossguards
3. cut the grip in half
4. dig out the emblems
5. pull out the throat
6. test the paint
7. remove the verdigris

Or any other crazy test to prove authenticity.

I never said that it had to be that intrusive. A simple taking it apart and close examination preferably with pictures should be adequate. No need to take out emblems, or pull apart a scabbard or cut a grip in half. XRF the paint if you think that's necessary (does nothing to the object itself), and leave the verdigris where it is. And in what universe does rust remove itself?? Not in mine, but maybe daggers for some live in a parallel reality? Fred

[JR.]

Here is the Pack SA in my office. Anything look familiar?

[JR.]

Css

[phild]

There is no paint on this to XRF.

[Frogprince]

There is no paint on this to XRF.

Not in hand, the lighting really had me wondering what the finish actually was. Blued, or in this case most likely rust bluing of course would not react as if it was a paint. Fred

[JR.]

Css2

[JR.]

Humor me as most have this thread..
What if the E. Pack etching records still survived the ravages of time from the late 20s into the 40s.

As all there etching production would be listed from one of a kind damascus presentation pieces were they made only 1 of to 500+ production items.

This would be absolute yes or no if these were ever made. Correct?
Or would the (opinions) of the posters on this thread be held to a higher level than complete period documents..
You must remember period original documents do not have agendas. But the poster of this dagger has....
That is all of course if these documents survived.. Boy that would be real cool if someone had these.. Right?? Oh, but what would happen if this type of SS dagger is not listed?? Would that end this bad joke?? What people would do for $60,000.00 as posted that this thing is worth (a opinion only..)
As I said for a novice he sure knows how to flog this on other forums and moves on when the (opinions) are not the ones he wants to hear because that ruins the sale..
Forums are not for education it seems they are to further agendas ..
Bob your opinion or my opinion of this item does not change what it is..
Just think if those records are out there what a wealth of inside factual information.. And damming factual information..
P.S. Unknown to JR and 40 years of experience the original artwork for the Sepp D. sword is in a private collection along with many other one off things..
I know people who are (professional) musicians for 40 years and they are not even close to mastering there instrument..
But they are always quick to say how long they have been playing..
It can be the same with studying other things.. Some people understand what they see some never will.

We know, brownie. You have gloated over this information time and again on one thread after another. You even stopped me at the SOS to tell me that only you possessed all this secret knowledge and that nobody was going to get it. Because you had to pay big money for it, and the little people will have to stand in some other free lunch line. I think we all understand this now.

[Bulldog]

Are we looking at the same ball on the lower scabbard fitting and the same tang nut on both daggers JR.

Russ.

[JR.]

Russ,


The photos are of a Pack SA in my office. Same grunge all over it, same lower chape style, same grunge on all the hilt fittings, tang nut etc. It's uncanny my SA has a crack close to the top fitting as well.

[DALE ELLIS]

Just my opinion but the nicotine patina looks off to me and unnatural.