Ss chained dagger near mint

[The Red Baron]

Jed, could you be mistaken? The ss stamp on the back of the chain is also POOR ie rounded corners.One red flag is one too many, so how about five? How do you know who owned it? That's six red flags.It sure does have a lot of qualithy problems for a mid production piece.Do you agree Jed or am I wrong? How about you other sheep:tongueout

You are truly a sad old man dude.

[DR DOLCH]

The owner was untersturmführer Rudi wetzel. Member of the Waffen ss (peiper).
Does anybody Knows something about him?
Regards alex

I know he owned a fake dagger.

[DR DOLCH]

[QUOTE=The Red Baron;6492556]You are truly a sad old man dude.[/QUOTEJed I am quite happy.Are you wrong all of the time?.

[DR DOLCH]

How much time is needed to post better pictures?

[Frogprince]

How much time is needed to post better pictures?

If some much better quality pictures are posted then that’s what should tilt the discussion one way or the other. And there is a risk using computer enhanced images - because on occasion I’ve had problems in the past in correctly interpreting images that were not from good quality images. And therefore not correct/true representations of the item under discussion. But so far not seeing any new images posted - here are a few of the enlargements that were done to the best of my ability. With the Caveat of course that they may not be accurate as if seen in hand.



The chain marking which does seem to be somewhat unusual, needing IMO a better quality image to verify that it’s not just the imaging.



A side by side by side composite image of two skulls taken from a single original image. With especially the crossbones on the left hand image lacking the detail seen on the right. Also some of the holes for the links seem to have more a squared off appearance at the ends. Lighting? ............ possibly - but that is not my sense of it.



The grip appears to have a shaped curve that goes not to the exterior lower edge of the upper cross guard. But to the top/left interior of the socket in the image. And more or less the mid section of the socket on the opposite side. (And there is more in the images that IMO needs a closer look but I’m trying to keep it simple.) And while in the absence of additional images that can clarify the matter of what actually is there - where somebody could always argue that it’s just optical illusions or bad imaging etc. etc. How far can you stretch that rationalization to account for the way that the grip looks? FP

[DR DOLCH]

FP this forum is luckh too have members like you who do not wear THE ORDER OF THE LEMIING awarded by Jed Burro.I get tired of his remarks.New pictures will not improve this fraud or fhe shill who support it.Your welcome..

[barqs19]

I love the guys on here that scream fake with no proof whatsoever to back their claim up. Just because it looks different from yours doesn't qualify it as a fake. If it's fake, who made it. It's that simple. Who made it? When? Maybe it's a later version, maybe some machinery was changed out, etc etc. A number of theories could explain why it's not the same as yours. Don't scream fake without backing it up. I don't know anything about SS items but I'm just saying.

[eiger]

The next days i will send better pictures
but i know the dagger is fine and original!
Regards Alex

[eiger]

We called this type of dagger in Germany B2 Type.
Anodized scabbard steel Chain and zinc
crossguards
Regards alex

[The Red Baron]

We called this type of dagger in Germany B2 Type.
Anodized scabbard steel Chain and zinc
crossguards
Regards alex

Die Name, "B2" kommt aus dem Siegert Buch ja? Ich hab' es nicht, aber hab' es gelesen, am besten! In den USA, und wahrscheinlich UK, usw, wir nannten diese Kettendolche nun "type I" und "type II." Die Probleme: beide konnen neusilber oder stahl (fruh oder spat)! B2 is deshalb besser aber das Buch ist noch nun auf Deutsch!

Und ja, wir (die echte Sammleren) lieben deine Dolch; echt und schoen!!!! Herr Doktor ist fast immer falsch (du sollst sein andere Vorschlagen ansuchen.....er hat nicht nicht oft recht.....). Auch, er hat keine Dolche.....besonders als diese Kettendolch. Wenn du es verkaufen will, ruf mir an!

[DR DOLCH]

Die Name, "B2" kommt aus dem Siegert Buch ja? Ich hab' es nicht, aber hab' es gelesen, am besten! In den USA, und wahrscheinlich UK, usw, wir nannten diese Kettendolche nun "type I" und "type II." Die Probleme: beide konnen neusilber oder stahl (fruh oder spat)! B2 is deshalb besser aber das Buch ist noch nun auf Deutsch!

Und ja, wir (die echte Sammleren) lieben deine Dolch; echt und schoen!!!! Herr Doktor ist fast immer falsch (du sollst sein andere Vorschlagen ansuchen.....er hat nicht nicht oft recht.....). Auch, er hat keine Dolche.....besonders als diese Kettendolch. Wenn du es verkaufen will, ruf mir an!

Send me your name address and phone number so I can send out the information you requesfed.What is the name of the book you published? I would like too buy it.For some reason I cannot answer PMs.

[Ostmaerker]

Send me your name address and phone number so I can send out the information you requesfed.What is the name of the book you published? I would like too buy it.For some reason I cannot answer PMs.

The book, which you talk about is from the series of books from the german author "Ralf Siegert". He wrote 4 books till now: The daggers of the SA and NSKK, The daggers of the SS, The daggers of the HJ and NPEA and The daggers of the Airforce, DLV and NSFK.
One more to come : The daggers of the german army.

Now here is talked abou the "SS book".

In the US, you name them "Type I" and "Type II". Mr Siegert and Mr Georgi (he wrote the chapter about the chains) had another view on the different kind of metals that were used, so it was decided to name them in a more specific way:

So we have the "Type A" chain: Neusilber, with closed Wotanknot, The bonehead with nasal septum and the beginning of the chain is slant and wide.

The the "Type B1":Neusilber, with closed Wotanknot, the bonehead without nasal septum, the beginning of the chain is slant.

Then "Type B2": Iron, closed Wotanknot, bonehead without nasal septum, the beginning of the chain is slant.

And finally "Type C": Iron, open Wotanknot, bonehaed without nasal septum, and beginning of the chain is strait.

Type A ist the early one (36) and Type C is the last one (till 43)

The first book of the SA daggers was translated into english, I don´t know if the other ones were or will be.

Ostmaerker

[DR DOLCH]

My mistake, I am not fluent in German.

[Frogprince]

The book, which you talk about is from the series of books from the german author "Ralf Siegert". He wrote 4 books till now: The daggers of the SA and NSKK, The daggers of the SS, The daggers of the HJ and NPEA and The daggers of the Airforce, DLV and NSFK.
One more to come : The daggers of the german army.

Now here is talked abou the "SS book".

In the US, you name them "Type I" and "Type II". Mr Siegert and Mr Georgi (he wrote the chapter about the chains) had another view on the different kind of metals that were used, so it was decided to name them in a more specific way:

So we have the "Type A" chain: Neusilber, with closed Wotanknot, The bonehead with nasal septum and the beginning of the chain is slant and wide.

The the "Type B1":Neusilber, with closed Wotanknot, the bonehead without nasal septum, the beginning of the chain is slant.

Then "Type B2": Iron, closed Wotanknot, bonehead without nasal septum, the beginning of the chain is slant.

And finally "Type C": Iron, open Wotanknot, bonehaed without nasal septum, and beginning of the chain is strait.

Type A ist the early one (36) and Type C is the last one (till 43)

The first book of the SA daggers was translated into english, I don´t know if the other ones were or will be.

Ostmaerker

I'm OK with the "Type A" which was written up here in the U.S. as the Type "X" prior to Tom Wittmann's book. And the "Type B1" as the successor in nickel silver (Neusilber). But if the "Type C" is the U.S. "Type I" I have to respectfully disagree because of the fairly heavy nickel plating and the mixture of malleable iron and zinc crossguards. With nickel becoming a restricted material for the war effort, and a number of the "Type B2" (the so-called "Type II) nickel plated components having very thin plating and zinc the material of choice for the crossguards. And then there is the matter of "anodized" which in German was called "eloxiert" (an aluminum oxide) whereas the correct term is "brüniert" which in that period was considered proper for both "browned" or "blued" that applied to both the brown and blue ferric oxide finishes on steel. And while the M 1936 daggers could be procured circa 1943 there may be a question of new manufacture versus old stock (previously purchased). And that is because there is documentation where the awards of the SS Degens were to be discontinued because of steel quotas well before then. And the manufacture of the dated RZM daggers stopped in 1942, and the very noticeable decline of Solingen manufacturing standards in 1942 etc. FP

[N.C. Wyeth]

Foreign language reference is great too!

The book, which you talk about is from the series of books from the german author "Ralf Siegert". He wrote 4 books till now: The daggers of the SA and NSKK, The daggers of the SS, The daggers of the HJ and NPEA and The daggers of the Airforce, DLV and NSFK.
One more to come : The daggers of the german army.

I have two of these books - the SA/NSKK and the SS copies. If you can find a copy of any of these volumes, I would recommend them as additional reference - equating them of equal value to most all other books available on the aforementioned subjects. In addition, the books by Ernst J. Niederhofer offer some valuable insight, where others may be lacking. Myself, I am not so certain of this dagger - but will remain on the fence for further discussion that lends better evidence.