Question on SA Honor daggers

[bgrelics]

Ron,
I really believe doing hotel buys is an addiction. To me it is like a treasure hunt.It still amazes me how many collectors have never bought from a veteran
Thanks,
Bob

[patrice]

From what I read so far, it seems there is two different world out there, those making a good investment because they bought their daggers from veterans and those, just like me, buying from dealers.

Do you really think, I mean seriously, that we are all making such a great investment when buying directly from you guys, the dealers ? Do you honestly think that you would be making such a great investment if your stuff didn't come from veterans ? Of course not and that's not what I was talking about, I was merely talking about normal people, those that buy their daggers from you guys, the dealers.
You said it yourself, it is an amazing investment because most of our stuff came from veterans, would be saying the same thing if all of your loved daggers came from dealers ?
What I'm against about, are those dealers claiming high and loud that they are almost making us a favor by selling us their daggers since it is such a great investment..............this is wrong.

[Ron Weinand]

Patrice: If you don't think there is a profit in the business, how has Tom Johnson been able to stay in business all these years with a staff and office building and taking on partners??
How about Joe P???. He has been a full time dealer longer than anyone I know and does it without a store.
Look at Wittmann, and don't tell me he makes it on book sales, I know better.
I could list many more, but I see you are set in your assessment.
I miss the old buys, but most of you have seen my collection photos and, like BG, over 90% of my keepers are out of the early motel buys, including my SA High Leader.

[bgrelics]

Patrice,I agree 100%,it would be a low end investment if I were buying only from dealers.I have been collecting for 45 years, and started buying from dealers like everyone else, and still do once in a while.But early on I was told by an old time collector, "hey kid buy from the veterans", you can buy it cheaper, sell what you do not want, which will pay for what you want to keep.
I do not do this full time, but it sure has gotten to be a part time job, since retiring.
I sell below dealer prices, and Iam sure I have sold to a lot of you guys in the past.
Thanks,
Bob

[patrice]

You cannot do any motel buy here, population is way to small in northern Canada.

There are hardly any veterans either where I live, I may have known 2 or 3 at the most and I think Canadians were not allowed to bring back war souvenirs, such as daggers and other stuff but I'm not sure if this is true.

I'm not complaining though when buying from dealers, I've willingly paid full retail for rare items and will be just plain happy to get my money back one day.
Even at zero return rate investment, I would still rather have a nice dagger worth 10K in my hands than money sitting in the bank, that doesn't give me any pleasure.


Bob, thank you for your opinion, you are the first dealer to actually say and I quote, " a low end investment if I were buying only from dealers ".


That's exactly what I'm killing myself to say !

[patrice]

Ron, both Tom's, Joe and yourself have done well and have greatly contributed to the hobby and everyone is entiltled to make a profit, including myself.

Why have they done so well, simply because they bought large collections from vets and collectors alike all wanting to get rid of their stuff to cash in and that's just fine, I would love to do exactly that, buying from vets.

I'm merely saying that you and all of the dealers in the world never would have done so well, in terms on return on your investment, if you had bought all of your daggers from dealers.

I'm only talking about normal collectors like me buying from you and other dealers, we will not be having the same return as you guys and I'm not jealous, it ain't my business, as you know, I sell cars for a living and that's better than any return on any dagger.

[Ron Weinand]

Patrice, maybe the answer to your problem is to put a sign up in the financial office offering a trade for relics on cars. It might surprise you. I know a Cadillac dealer who did this for years and did extremely well in a small town.

[james m]

Bob Hritz should be one of the poster boys for success and investment potential. Bob I. and I both will take the good times and the rewards.
In my case, just like Jim M., buying from the veterans and their family has made this hobby fruitful and a joy IMO.

Patrice:
With alll due resprect, and we have known each other for many years, anyone with lots of money can pull out their checkbook and buy whatever they want from a dealer at full retail.
That's fine if that what you want to do and the way you want to collect.
To me, and sorry for this analogy , thats' the equivelent to hunting big game animals in a fenced in enclosure or figueratively shooting the proverbial fish in a barrel.
I've always been a "fair chase" hunter in any and all of my pursuits and I will continue along that path as long as I can hike it. And I should add that the outstanding collections owned by friends I've been blessed to see over the years were generally assembled in this way.
I guess we all get our enjoyment out of this hobby in different ways and I'm not disparaging anyone else's approach.

Jim

[J. M. C.]

Bob Hritz, Bob Moses, Saunders, BG Relics, Jason Burmeister and myself were some of the first motel buyers. I don't know how many BG has done, but way in excess of my 350 plus buys. Those were the golden days.
I would probably still be on the road if I hadn't become partners with Tom Johnson.

Those may have been the golden days (or years) but there is still a lot more out there.

If anyone wants items fresh from the woodwork it just takes a little legwork. It really isn't that hard.

[Bob Hritz]

I bought my first honor dwgger from a dealer for $9000.00. That was 24 years ago. I grittted my teeth and paid the full retail price. Time has been kind to me and the near mint early dagger has appreciated nicely. I have many items, bought from dealers, but Inhave had decades of enjoyment and time for them to apprecite in value. Some have done exceptionally well and some had found a home but remained close to the same value. Since I rarely buy for resale, any more, I am content enjoying my collection for the joy it brings me.

Bob Hritz

[kersten]

I think eStand can be an excellent way to get good items without the full retail dealer price, I hope more and more collectors avoid the dealers and go eStand

[patrice]

Patrice, maybe the answer to your problem is to put a sign up in the financial office offering a trade for relics on cars. It might surprise you. I know a Cadillac dealer who did this for years and did extremely well in a small town.

[patrice]

Patrice:
With alll due resprect, and we have known each other for many years, anyone with lots of money can pull out their checkbook and buy whatever they want from a dealer at full retail.
That's fine if that what you want to do and the way you want to collect.
To me, and sorry for this analogy , thats' the equivelent to hunting big game animals in a fenced in enclosure or figueratively shooting the proverbial fish in a barrel.
I've always been a "fair chase" hunter in any and all of my pursuits and I will continue along that path as long as I can hike it. And I should add that the outstanding collections owned by friends I've been blessed to see over the years were generally assembled in this way.
I guess we all get our enjoyment out of this hobby in different ways and I'm not disparaging anyone else's approach.

Jim

Jim,

Since I come from a small village in northern Canada with zero vets in a 300 miles radius, where can I buy my blades ? To be honest with you, I have done well in many circumstances, did buy some beauties at the Max and SOS shows over the years and from many collectors here and abroad. My lastest score is a near mint early SS dagger for $ 3500, well below retail so everything is not all that grey for me.
Overall, I should be making a 30% return on my investment, that's about 2% per year on a 15 year period, started collecting in 2000. That's better than nothing but far much less than any conservative return on real estate, bonds, dividends or even stocks.

I have paid full retail on only two high end daggers, both of my Damascus Army and Luft, any regrets ? No, but I do feel stupid at time.
Trust me, I do like a fair deal and this is why I have never bought anything from any big name dealer in the last 8 years ......................... I will not pay those prices. The only exception I will make will be on a NPEA Chained Leader dagger, I will pay whatever is needed and will even give a free Toyota if I have to but I want it. This will also be my last dagger in my collection and will move on to something else, I'm no type collector so I will not be having 50 SA's, one of each is enought though I do have 10 SS daggers but that's different and crossing my fingers for another one that should be coming by Xmas.

[lakesidetrader]

Well Pat in my experience I sell many things to dealers who I'm sure are reselling to into the Russian and Europeans markets. I have also sold things to guys on this forum who turned around and profited on Estand. I don't mind that's just business.
On the other hand I have also purchased from Tom's, Ron, The Guild etc and turned a profit. It takes work and time searching but you can do it. BTW Selling Toyota's takes work too.
As far as not being able to buy in Canada well I proved this to be wrong doing a cross country buying tour a few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9VdgF0tQJo

[patrice]

Well Pat in my experience I sell many things to dealers who I'm sure are reselling to into the Russian and Europeans markets. I have also sold things to guys on this forum who turned around and profited on Estand. I don't mind that's just business.
On the other hand I have also purchased from Tom's, Ron, The Guild etc and turned a profit. It takes work and time searching but you can do it. BTW Selling Toyota's takes work too.
As far as not being able to buy in Canada well I proved this to be wrong doing a cross country buying tour a few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9VdgF0tQJo

Paul,

First of all, you need time to do what you do, I cannot go across Canada hunting for collections, I've got a full time job and selling cars is my livelyhood, not searching for daggers so we are not comparing apple and apple here. Second, selling Toyota takes no effort, they sale like hot cakes but we do have to negociate fair prices on their trade in car.
I've also sold you many daggers directly to you Paul, at last count it was 38 daggers and you were able to turn around a nice profit on all counts. I sold you a mint SS M36 Chained, a mint SA Full Rohm and a Knight's Cross, all of which you made a minimum 30% premium and that was fine for me. Where did I get those daggers, from collector friends mostly in Europe and since I didn't want to bother with selling it, I simply made a 5% commission, paid the money up front and sold you those daggers. Of course, I could have made more if I sold them myself but I did not want to waste time and effort back then. What did I tell you ? I told you that you could sell my entire collection when time come for me to retire and you will take your consignment fees, how much do you think this will cost me ? This is how most of you dealers make your profits, from guys like me and others that do not want to go through the whole process of selling one item at the time or if you need fast cash rapidly and that's just fine with me.

All I'm saying and I may have difficulties in explaining myself since English is not my mother tongue, but you cannot make a good return on your investment if you buy all your stuff from dealers, plain and simple. Of course you do get once in a while a good deal here and there from dealers. I bought a dagger from a well known dealer well under retail last year, do you remember the SS dagger at the Max, you were with me.

If I would offer you both of my damascus Luft and Army, which were bought 5 years ago, do you seriously think that I would get my money back, hell no, I would lose at least 5,000 $, so were is the investment potential ? It has to be a longgggggggggggggggggggg term process and you need to be extremely patient and should I say, lucky ? Only a handful of daggers will keep their value and for the rest, well good luck.

I have Wittmann's price guide dated 2004 which I bought at the Max back then and it would be a real " eye opener " to compare prices back then with today's value, trust me, it wouldn't be a good marketing strategy aside from SS daggers.