Question on SA Honor daggers

[Ron Weinand]

Honor Dagger Reproduction or Refinishing

Original motto gilding is NOT reproduced today and it is not possible due to mercury being used in the pre 1945 years and the complex process is just not available today.
Re-leathering is not up to the pre 1945 manufactures as it is near impossible due to the fact that current leather is just not the same grade or preparation, but is much closer to the original than the gilding process.

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi Ron,


The difference between fire gilding and modern gilding is indeed visible but I'm afraid that I have seen already you tube movies where a handy guy demonstrated the old way of fire gilding (mercury gilding). It's an interesting proces to watch but also scary if such people get connected to TR dealers.
see link for a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZbzD6UhdJk


Regards, Wim

[Frogprince]

Fire gilding which historically used mercury is not nearly as accessible now as it was then. But some of what has been described as “fire gllt” is a replication of the other alloys used in fire gilt that give it the same type of coloration. But lack the uneven texture/surface finish of the fire gilt process - instead being done by electroplating. FP

[kiwitedferny]

A trained eye can tell re-gilding, re-leathering.
The more value an item holds, the more chance it has of being 'restored'. So you will find more SS 'restored' daggers than SA.
A 'restored' SA high leader will get perhaps 15K+ from a deep-pocket newbie, then left salty. A learned collector always strives to have the most untouched example that is available, and if it's not readily available, then that slot remains empty until a worthy example is acquired.

Thankfully, this destructive trend in 3rd Reich edged weapons is now falling in line with other historical collectibles, where 'un-improved' is worth more than the bright goop gold gilding some History Destroyer will place on the blade all for the love of $.

-wagner-

15K?!! I wish! Try 40-50k. At least, that's what's been asked for. 50-60 K for an 'untouched' example. I ain't paying that. But that's what's being offered. Find me one for 15k and I'll send you a crate of Moët.

[nickn]

Fire/mercury guilding is done in the uk so I am sure it's available in other countries

[11C]

http://mercury-gilding.com/Studio.html

[Erich B.]

From what I've heard and seen, re-leathering the scabbard would be the most difficult part of a restoration to redo, as the original leather used was of a distinctive type and was not of the highest quality.
Erich

[BrianK]

That pretty much explain the lack of trust we have towards most dealers, only a handful are trustsworthy, and the reason why the market has greatly deflated. Only a handful of dealers are still claiming high and loud that this hobby is a great investment for your retirement ............. how stupid do they think we are ?

You mean you're not following Witty's advice and dissolving your 401K to buy daggers?

[ErichS]

You mean you're not following Witty's advice and dissolving your 401K to buy daggers?

Now that's scary advice!

[lakesidetrader]

To restore or not to restore the age old question. When some of this stuff comes out of the woodwork it looks like junk and IMHO restoration is the right thing to do. Don't like it? Then don't buy them restored.
The issue rather is sharing that information. This is where we have a problem.
As far as an investment. Of course no one should plow all their money into any one thing but many collectors have made money in the hobby including you Pat. IMHO good quality pieces bought right do appreciate with time. I can not say the same about my Beanie Baby collection.
Besides the hobby can be great fun with much learning and an appreciation for history. Most of all there are many awesome people in it.
Sorry but I get much more pleasure from looking at my collection than my 401k certificate.

[patrice]

Of course no one should plow all their money into any one thing but many collectors have made money in the hobby including you Pat.
Sorry but I get much more pleasure from looking at my collection than my 401k certificate.

Sorry Paul but I've never made any money with my daggers and was simply happy to get my money back whenever I could. On the other hand, I'm merrely collecting for the fun of it and I have never sold any of my high ends daggers, other than my SA Honor, which should bring a fair return on my investment when I decide to get rid of them.

[kiwitedferny]

To restore or not to restore the age old question. When some of this stuff comes out of the woodwork it looks like junk and IMHO restoration is the right thing to do. Don't like it? Then don't buy them restored.
The issue rather is sharing that information. This is where we have a problem.
As far as an investment. Of course no one should plow all their money into any one thing but many collectors have made money in the hobby including you Pat. IMHO good quality pieces bought right do appreciate with time. I can not say the same about my Beanie Baby collection.
Besides the hobby can be great fun with much learning and an appreciation for history. Most of all there are many awesome people in it.
Sorry but I get much more pleasure from looking at my collection than my 401k certificate.

You are bang on, Paul! Disclosure that a dagger has 'had work done' is the big issue for me. If that information is provided up front in the sales blurb, well and good. But sadly, I purchased a piece or two from a 'name' before discovering that, unless you ask the question directly, that information generally isn't provided. The rest of 'the big boys' seem to be pretty reliable in making the disclosure straight away.

[kiwitedferny]

Sorry Paul but I've never made any money with my daggers and was simply happy to get my money back whenever I could. On the other hand, I'm merrely collecting for the fun of it and I have never sold any of my high ends daggers, other than my SA Honor, which should bring a fair return on my investment when I decide to get rid of them.

You should have brought guns, Pat! I'm making a bit on every one that I'm selling off at the moment.

[11C]

To restore or not to restore the age old question. When some of this stuff comes out of the woodwork it looks like junk and IMHO restoration is the right thing to do. Don't like it? Then don't buy them restored.
The issue rather is sharing that information. This is where we have a problem.
As far as an investment. Of course no one should plow all their money into any one thing but many collectors have made money in the hobby including you Pat. IMHO good quality pieces bought right do appreciate with time. I can not say the same about my Beanie Baby collection.
Besides the hobby can be great fun with much learning and an appreciation for history. Most of all there are many awesome people in it.
Sorry but I get much more pleasure from looking at my collection than my 401k certificate.

I agree to a point. I made a lot of money selling off high quality daggers in the late 1980's................I also watched my 401ks take a serious hit just a few years ago. I find collecting daggers for profit has everything to do with quality and rarity. If you have both in a dagger, you cannot lose, as there is always a buyer for such items.

I am purchasing quality daggers again because I see the same kind of markers I did in the late 70's. It is pleasurable as Paul suggests, but it is also profitable if you understand the market. BTW, Germany and England are selling and China is buying, but China will pay even more in the future.

[Ron Weinand]

TR retirement

As with any antique business, quality and rare will always sell and the hobby has paid for its self and has done very well for me. I have kept the cream and will sell as retirement time goes along. Daggers and medals have been better than my 401K and the only other party that is making money with my relics is the government in taxes.