Question on SA Honor daggers

[patrice]

Very nice daggers Barry but that's quite a gap between $ 45K and $60K ?

[Barry Brown]

Very nice daggers Barry but that's quite a gap between $ 45K and $60K ?

Well yes, but quite a range in the retail asking price can be out there. Condition is paramount. An original untouched and in premier condition should fetch top dollar. There have been a few offered by the high end trade in the past few years with replaced leather wrap, cleaned up/restored damascus, regilded inscription/TM, replaced or repaired grips, etc.
Last year I did see an early SA honour with a few minor issues offered @ $45k USD. At the other extreme another, described as near mint and untouched, on the CGM site offered @ $90k plus - I think it is now p.o.r?

[patrice]

Well yes, but quite a range in the retail asking price can be out there. Condition is paramount. An original untouched and in premier condition should fetch top dollar. There have been a few offered by the high end trade in the past few years with replaced leather wrap, cleaned up/restored damascus, regilded inscription/TM, replaced or repaired grips, etc.
Last year I did see an early SA honour with a few minor issues offered @ $45k USD. At the other extreme another, described as near mint and untouched, on the CGM site offered @ $90k plus - I think it is now p.o.r?

Barry, the asking price is now $ 60K, I have asked Craig.
Needless to say that you can ask whatever you want for a dagger but the question is, " will it sell ? " .............. No in this case.
I think this is a more reasonable price for an early M33 SA Honor which also appears to be in a pretty minty condition to me, I don't think that I have seen any other in a better condition. Now, will it sell at this price ? We will see but it's been sitting there for months and nobody is rushing in as of now.

[damasco]

Didn't buy it because it was releathered and I wanted to have it untouched, even if it meant for the leather to be rotten.

Patrice there is more wrong with this dagger than just new leather..... There are dam few of these daggers out there that have not been reworked... It is sort of comical.... I'm commenting on the dagger Patrice posted... Many of these daggers have been reworked when they should have been left alone! But some newer to the scene inexperienced dealers with deep pockets like to polish that apple!! I passed on one Bob Moses had years ago nice early one all original did not have the cash in hand at that show. P.S. the Honor Dagger on CGM Site has issues .

[patrice]

Sorry to disagree but the SA Honor that I used to own came from the collection of the late Julian Milestone, famous collector.
I also happen to have the original pictures form back then and the blade is identical. However, it could have been restored at some point but if this is the case, it was done like 50 years ago.

The only thing done to the blade was to clean the surface dirt, no big thing, just plain water and a clean cotton cloth.

[damasco]

Not talking about the one you use to own... Talking about the one you have pictured below that you passed on... By the way Milestone had another SA in much better shape. But we know where that is now South of me.. I meet Julian at the MAX shows use to talk to him about his goodies...

[lakesidetrader]

90% of these have been reguilded.
But they truly are things of beauty.

[kiwitedferny]

Thanks to every one for pitching in here. It's now all as clear.........as mud!

Lol! I guess the offer-counter offer game is the only way to go with this type of thing. Pay what you can afford for a piece that you love. As long as you enjoy it!

My personal preference is for one that has been as 'under messed with' as can possibly be verified. If/when I do make a purchase, I will be posting pics here for every ones input before I commit. I'm not a 'discrete' collector.


And......I think maybe I'd prefer an SS now.....

[The Red Baron]

Thanks to every one for pitching in here. It's now all as clear.........as mud!

Lol! I guess the offer-counter offer game is the only way to go with this type of thing. Pay what you can afford for a piece that you love. As long as you enjoy it!

My personal preference is for one that has been as 'under messed with' as can possibly be verified. If/when I do make a purchase, I will be posting pics here for every ones input before I commit. I'm not a 'discrete' collector.


And......I think maybe I'd prefer an SS now.....

now your talking my language

And yes I've heard that nearly everyone of these has made it hands through someones hands that has re-guilted it.

[JohnZ]

I used to own one and the one of the options I had when I purchased it was whether I wanted it regilted. I said no, so we left it as is. But, it was offered to me with very little of the gilt left on it... the dealer didn't want to mess with it, but gave me the option of doing so, if I wanted.

It has since passed to other hands and is still, to the best of my knowledge, not been regilted.

John

[patrice]

That's the way I like them, untouched.

I wouldn't bother with any enhanced dagger, unless it was offered to me at a big discount.

A near mint SS dagger was offered to me but with a redone grip, though it would had been impossible to notice the repair, the dealer was honest enough to tell, I said no thanks.

[Wim Vangossum]

So a lot of these high end daggers are reworked? And what as such a dagger pass hands (and I have the feeling, just like with the Feldherrnhalle, that such top pieces very often change hands)? If the former owner keep his mouth then you buy a restored dagger for the price of an untouched piece? Who will know in a few decades which dagger is untouched and which is not???

Are these restorings (gilding, scabbard leather) detectable or are they identical to the original stuff?


Regards, Wim

[patrice]

So a lot of these high end daggers are reworked? And what as such a dagger pass hands (and I have the feeling, just like with the Feldherrnhalle, that such top pieces very often change hands)? If the former owner keep his mouth then you buy a restored dagger for the price of an untouched piece? Who will know in a few decades which dagger is untouched and which is not???

Are these restorings (gilding, scabbard leather) detectable or are they identical to the original stuff?


Regards, Wim

That pretty much explain the lack of trust we have towards most dealers, only a handful are trustsworthy, and the reason why the market has greatly deflated. Only a handful of dealers are still claiming high and loud that this hobby is a great investment for your retirement ............. how stupid do they think we are ?

[damasco]

So a lot of these high end daggers are reworked? And what as such a dagger pass hands (and I have the feeling, just like with the Feldherrnhalle, that such top pieces very often change hands)? If the former owner keep his mouth then you buy a restored dagger for the price of an untouched piece? Who will know in a few decades which dagger is untouched and which is not???

Are these restorings (gilding, scabbard leather) detectable or are they identical to the original stuff?


Regards, Wim

The Gilding (gold) is detectable to some. The funny thing is I have traded and sold untouched original Army Luft. damascus daggers that NEVER had Gilding on the makers marks and the next time I see them for sale guess what they have now turned to Gold... The sad part is these particular damascus dagger blades never had Gold on there trademark to begin with!! The good thing is it does come off easy...
I just do not get it...I guess the old saying people buy with there eyes holds true so Keep polishing
I still very much enjoy the hobby but it sure has changed with the new (different type) of broker dealers the last years.. I sure have made advancements on items I have bought over the years but I sure have over paid on items I wanted too....The key words here are ( I WANTED )

[Serge M.]

So a lot of these high end daggers are reworked? And what as such a dagger pass hands (and I have the feeling, just like with the Feldherrnhalle, that such top pieces very often change hands)? If the former owner keep his mouth then you buy a restored dagger for the price of an untouched piece? Who will know in a few decades which dagger is untouched and which is not???

Are these restorings (gilding, scabbard leather) detectable or are they identical to the original stuff?


Regards, Wim

A trained eye can tell re-gilding, re-leathering.
The more value an item holds, the more chance it has of being 'restored'. So you will find more SS 'restored' daggers than SA.
A 'restored' SA high leader will get perhaps 15K+ from a deep-pocket newbie, then left salty. A learned collector always strives to have the most untouched example that is available, and if it's not readily available, then that slot remains empty until a worthy example is acquired.

Thankfully, this destructive trend in 3rd Reich edged weapons is now falling in line with other historical collectibles, where 'un-improved' is worth more than the bright goop gold gilding some History Destroyer will place on the blade all for the love of $.

-wagner-