Minty SA just arrived

[ivbaust]

Here’s an older Carl Schlieper knife with crossgrain, too

[ivbaust]

Here’s the complete Schlieper dagger


DBD42986-DFD4-4C4F-9D86-D6CED6037830.jpeg

936191E9-C789-4E68-B0AB-8408A1BE2A24.jpeg

[ivbaust]

So, an original SA dagger must have crossgrain. It is correct that the intensity of the crossgrain can differ slightly from dagger to dagger and maker to maker. Occasionally daggers can have a „lighter“ crossgrain, but it’s still clearly visible.

Any dagger without crossgrain has been polished after it has left the factory (and this can be done professionally without harming the motto or makers mark ).

[Rheinmetall]

I have a question regarding crossgrain on Eickhorn 'factory ground Röhm' blades. Since the dedication was professionally removed at factory level would the finished result have a crossgrain or totally buffed out? Also, would the factory then clean up the motto side to have it look as fresh as the opposite side?

[Victorman]

I have a question regarding crossgrain on Eickhorn 'factory ground Röhm' blades. Since the dedication was professionally removed at factory level would the finished result have a crossgrain or totally buffed out? Also, would the factory then clean up the motto side to have it look as fresh as the opposite side?

Never buffed blades left the the Eickhorn (or any other Solingen firm's) factory, Rheinmetall, it would have been unacceptable!

Best regards,

Victorman

[Br. James]

As I understand it, the appearance of "cross-graining" on a blade is part of the blade's factory finishing process, after which the maker's mark or RZM license code is applied to the blade's reverse, and any blade motto ("Alles für Deutschland," "Meine Ehre heißt Treue," etc.) is applied to the blade's obverse by acid-etch and any dedication -- such as the Röhm or the Himmler honor dedication -- was similarly applied to the blade's reverse. This process permitted the "cross-graining" to remain intact after all of these etchings. But when a dedication was removed, that process also removed the "cross-graining" from the blade's surface surrounding the affected area, while leaving the "cross-graining" intact close to the maker's mark and on the opposite side of the blade.

Br. James

[Rheinmetall]

But when a dedication was removed, that process also removed the "cross-graining" from the blade's surface surrounding the affected area, while leaving the "cross-graining" intact close to the maker's mark and on the opposite side of the blade.

Br. James

That makes total sense, thank you for the explanation!

[ivbaust]

... "cross-graining" on a blade is part of the blade's factory finishing process, after which the maker's mark or RZM license code is applied to the blade's reverse, ...

It was the other way around. First motto and makers mark have been etched, then the blade was finished resulting in crossgrain. The finishing was more or less the last production step on the blade. Then the dagger was assembled, cleaned, inspected and ready for shipment.

Here’s a nice video by the Olbertz company. It shows the production of a pocket knife. It wasn’t much different in 1934. Check out minute 1:21 and 1:31. First makers mark, then blade finishing.

https://youtu.be/H_N2zfjU9NM

[Frogprince]

Period and earlier sword blades were roll forged to get them to their desired size and shape with a lot of grinding and polishing to create a smooth surface before being etched and possibly plated. If the trade/makers mark was stamped it was done after the final polishing (there could be some occasional exceptions depending on the maker). The etching being the last step unless they were to be plated as the final step. If they were military issue (but not a dress type) the blades might have a lot of “crossgrain” that was really more of what could be called a “satin’ or “brush” type finish that is both cross and length wise. Most TR period fighting knives having a crosswise “satin” or “brush” type finish. The political daggers were dropped forged which left a very rough surface that required considerable grinding and polishing to get them to their desired size and shape, the final polishing leaving what we call “crossgrain”. That step being followed by the etching and possibly darkening (if it was desired). FP

[Victorman]

[QUOTE=Br. James; This process permitted the "cross-graining" to remain intact after all of these etchings. But when a dedication was removed, that process also removed the "cross-graining" from the blade's surface surrounding the affected area, while leaving the "cross-graining" intact close to the maker's mark and on the opposite side of the blade.

Br. James[/QUOTE]

That is incomplete, James.

The SA dagger I show higher is a factory ground Rohm by Eickhorn: the complete blade was re-polished at the factory, applying cross grain over the complete length of both sides!

I expected the pictures to be the complete explanation, but for those who don't know: that small Eickhorn maker mark was only used on Rohm SA daggers not on regular M33 SA daggers.

Best regards,

Victorman.

[Robert H]

German craftsmen, today and back then make their best job to leave the product especially for such a blade product the way as it should leave the factory.
The crossgrain on blades are not a early Monday morning product at all, thats the way as a blade should be. Same as on HJ boys knifes or any other dagger.

[Rheinmetall]

That is incomplete, James.

The SA dagger I show higher is a factory ground Rohm by Eickhorn: the complete blade was re-polished at the factory, applying cross grain over the complete length of both sides!

I expected the pictures to be the complete explanation, but for those who don't know: that small Eickhorn maker mark was only used on Rohm SA daggers not on regular M33 SA daggers.

Best regards,

Victorman.

Thank you Victorman, when I first viewed your pictures it was on a smaller screen and I did not see well enough what you were showing. Now that I view on a larger screen I can clearly see what you wanted to convey.

[Serge M.]

So, an original SA dagger must have crossgrain. It is correct that the intensity of the crossgrain can differ slightly from dagger to dagger and maker to maker. Occasionally daggers can have a „lighter“ crossgrain, but it’s still clearly visible.

Any dagger without crossgrain has been polished after it has left the factory (and this can be done professionally without harming the motto or makers mark ).

That's just the way it is regardless of the 'when workers had time they polished.....' - rumor.

If they (the factory blade polishers) had always wanted to mirror polish a blade but just couldn't spend the extra time on it, why couldn't they then spend the time on a true Honor Dagger Blade ?

[Br. James]

I began my comment in note #36 with "As I understand it;" I am grateful for the greater experience provided by our colleagues here on WAF.

Br. James

[Robert H]

because they polished them on purpose, ever seen a SS M36 A1 with cross grain? I didn´t.

That's just the way it is regardless of the 'when workers had time they polished.....' - rumor.

If they (the factory blade polishers) had always wanted to mirror polish a blade but just couldn't spend the extra time on it, why couldn't they then spend the time on a true Honor Dagger Blade ?