Minty SA just arrived

[JR.]

"A better quality blade is one that has had more time spent on it with finer and finer grinding and polishing wheels, therefore leaving less visible crossgrain. As long as it has not been polished out post-war a blade like this one is more desirable than a one with more courser visible crossgrain."
This is so true, and evident as the Nazi edged weapon production transitioned from the early M33's, in to the RZM era. Look at the RZM SA's that were pumped out after 1938. The surface is totally muted and washed out by a course crossgrain, which in many cases you cannot see your reflection in it.

[JR.]

La

[Victorman]

That’s an interesting question. I have seen another SA in the past with the same thing: almost no visible crossgrain but letters perfect without any sign of polishing.

would like to hear how this can be explained. Could it be that not all SA daggers were produced with a lot of crossgrain?

Regards
Danny

There were several ways to finish a blade during the 1930-40ies in Germany:
- Plating the blade: done on most swords and dress bayonets
- Bluing the blade: most combat bayonets and some fighting knifes show this finishing
- Polishing the blade: seen on most dress daggers. This method creates the so called "cross grain". There are indeed several qualities of that polishing, with wider or finer lines. But when you hold a mint blade in the sunlight, you always will see the typical light reflections. The less you clean a blade, the more these reflections remain intact.

Blades with few or no reflection (cross grain) have been cleaned a lot and/of heavily, often in an attempt to remove age spots and upgrade these blades to "mint" condition.
My experience, over the 18 years that I collect, is that most blades without or with few cross grain are coming (back) from the US or Canada and went through the hands of "skillful" dealers...
Any untouched dagger coming from Germany or elsewhere in Europe, will always show the reflections we like to see; eventually combined with spots and other signs of age...

Best regards,

Victorman

[Victorman]

And here is the exact same dagger as shown by JR: the Eickhorn large serrated tail.
The cross grain on this example was NOT cleaned away, leaving a nice "frosted" reflection!

Best regards,

Victorman

[Victorman]

Notice that on one side, the contact with the scabbard cleaned/polished the cross grain away by getting in and out of the scabbard during 87 years... but the remainder of the blade of this example was not that often cleaned!

Best regards,

Victorman

[JR.]

The better the skill of the technician even within the same edged weapon firm, the less crossgrain was the objective. Several years back the grandson of an employee at one of the edged weapon firms during the 3rd Reich era posted on GDC. He said that the crossgrain that collectors today marvel about, factory workers actually cursed and try to eliminate with their finished product.

[JR.]

As an early manufacture of the M33 SS, Klaas did the best job of eliminating crossgrain from their finished blades. Where Hammesfahr probably the opposite end of the spectrum.

[JR.]

Though collectors today may like the course railroad track crossgrain effect that Herman shows with that SA, it was not the desired effect that workers were actually trying to achieve. So stated the relative of an actually edged weapon firm employee.

[JR.]

Gh

[dr01]

The better the skill of the technician even within the same edged weapon firm, the less crossgrain was the objective. Several years back the grandson of an employee at one of the edged weapon firms during the 3rd Reich era posted on GDC. He said that the crossgrain that collectors today marvel about, factory workers actually cursed and try to eliminate with their finished product.

This is exactly what I was talking about! Very light crossgrain but perfect motto. I am certain this one was NOT pollished. I am convinced it left the factory this way. Too bad some collectors will call the lack of crossgrain on daggers like this example the result of pollishing.

[Frogprince]

There were several ways to finish a blade during the 1930-40ies in Germany:
- Plating the blade: done on most swords and dress bayonets
- Bluing the blade: most combat bayonets and some fighting knifes show this finishing
- Polishing the blade: seen on most dress daggers. This method creates the so called "cross grain". There are indeed several qualities of that polishing, with wider or finer lines.

But when you hold a mint blade in the sunlight, you always will see the typical light reflections. The less you clean a blade, the more these reflections remain intact.

Blades with few or no reflection (cross grain) have been cleaned a lot and/of heavily, often in an attempt to remove age spots and upgrade these blades to "mint" condition.
My experience, over the 18 years that I collect, is that most blades without or with few cross grain are coming (back) from the US or Canada and went through the hands of "skillful" dealers...
Any untouched dagger coming from Germany or elsewhere in Europe, will always show the reflections we like to see; eventually combined with spots and other signs of age...

Best regards,

Victorman

At U.S. shows with lots of daggers and other blades for sale oftentimes quite a few looked like automobiles that had made a trip to a "detailer" first to try and bring them back up to new or near new condition - so I tried to make an effort to see them in sunlight before I made a decision if I had my doubts. Obviously polished fittings, hints of spotting, and/or other age on a blade etc. also telling a story which was to look much more closely at the blades - because they (the signs of aging) just don't magically disappear. Not particularly talented in photography myself, I also know that some lighting tricks can create an impression that fails an in person examination and that there are some who exploit that to gain an advantage. FP

[Victorman]

As an early manufacture of the M33 SS, Klaas did the best job of eliminating crossgrain from their finished blades. Where Hammesfahr probably the opposite end of the spectrum.

I find that a very strange observation...
Here in Europe, the Klaas M33 SS daggers show very beautiful frosted cross grain... the ones that were left untouched anyway!

Also notice that the wood of M33 Klaas SS daggers is more brownish-black; not the dark black that you find on many daggers "treated" in the US and elsewhere.

Best regards,

Victorman

[Victorman]

The better the skill of the technician even within the same edged weapon firm, the less crossgrain was the objective. Several years back the grandson of an employee at one of the edged weapon firms during the 3rd Reich era posted on GDC. He said that the crossgrain that collectors today marvel about, factory workers actually cursed and try to eliminate with their finished product.

Hahaha...

This is the best joke I have heard in many years!
You sure have a lot of imagination, JR!

If you don't want cross grain on your blades, just buy a 10 US$ buffing wheel or a Dremel devise and in a few minutes all the cross grain will have disappeared from any blade!
Why did not the Solingen workers think about that?

Hahaha

What I believe, JR, is that you bought a collection of buffed blades -some you showed here- that you have trouble selling!
So now your new rule is: "the less cross grain the better the blade..."

Hahaha

Victorman

[Victorman]

Is seems that today those Solingen firms are still struggling with the cross grain problem!
Maybe drop them an e-mail, JR, about the 10 US$ buffing wheel trick?
IKEA did find a way to get rid of cross grain on their knifes: get them produced in China!

Hahaha

[ivbaust]

Ok, gentlemen. Let’s get back to a respectful and friendly discussion

I have information „directly from the source“, meaning from a company which produced SA daggers.

One of the last production steps on the blade was the surface finishing. This has been done for improving the surface. It increased the durability of the blade and gave it additionally a „nice look“.

This finishing is still done today, as modern knives clearly show. Just see the screen shot of a YouTube video of the Solinger knife maker „Friedrich Olbertz“ (BTW this company acquired the SA dagger maker Carl Schlieper and sells still today Schlieper knives)