New friend m43

[giorgio]

Hi,
very interesting thread.....
forgive me if I ask......not my field....
are the pull down loops stitched threw the caps side panel considered a "giveaway" of repro or you can find them on original ones?
Regards
Giorgio

[jayjay198666]

m43 caps have pull down loops, some original do not have, maybe removed by owner or broken off

[giorgio]

Forgive my bad english....
I meant the loop fixing seams that are seen on the outer panel....
On original caps you see them, or are a repro giveaway?
Thanks
Giorgio

[Peter v L]

Forgive my bad english....
I meant the loop fixing seams that are seen on the outer panel....
On original caps you see them, or are a repro giveaway?
Thanks
Giorgio

As far as I have seen they are all sewn through the to the outside if machinstiched, some may have handstiched ones which don´t go through

[Fsoq]

I think Giogio meant this difference.

[Peter v L]

I think Giogio meant this difference.

I agree, but the seam is there on all caps with pullstraps, just a difference how they are sewn and how much. On most bad caps the pullstraps are very lightly sewn. The meaning with them was just as the name say, to pull, that means that they need to be well secured to be usaable.

I have seen some with hand sewn pullstraps and some swen Before the cloth is folded, on these one do not see any seem though, but I would say that on most cap seem is more or less visable.

[phild]

It is a shame that cloth items are not discussed openly and completely, with the detractors explaining their thoughts and the other side defending. I remember when the questions arose in the badge and award forums saying that the open sharing of information would make the fakers be able to produce perfect fakes and those who had the knowledge should keep it to the select few. I always disagreed with this. In the end, the information was put out there and guess what, badge and award collecting is the safest collecting in the hobby. Perfect fakes have not appeared. No one, who puts in a little studying, should ever buy a fake badge. Anyway, for some reason, cloth collectors have not come on board with this thinking and as such cloth collecting is now a roll of the dice and a dark art. Very sad.

By the very definition, “perfect fake”, we will never know when a type of item reaching that level is a fake unless we made it or watched it being made!
I agree with you that much as been acheived in the badge authentication area by great detail and open discloser, but for me it is still far from safe. The variety of fakes and original for most every type of badge or medal is staggering.
Cloth uniforms and headwear present there own challenges because unlike badges/medals, really no two items are not were exactly alike, meaning at the micro level and usually even from 3 meters away.

We have to be very careful as a group to make declarations as to what is period and what is not without strong fact and reason. This pit has been walked into many times for both good and bad items in every category and is always very embarrassing when the opposite of accepted opinion is proven.

[Ludwig]

Very interesting thread, IMO.


I´m not thinking of the cap/caps discussed here.


I´m thinking of the...funny?...way of arguing. All the insults, all the **** throwing, the Kindergarten level.


If you know "The Big Secret", spit it out! Don´t give us that "oh, I don´t want to inform the fake makers"-bull****! How do you know there isn´t a fake maker or two among the "serious collectors", "the experts"?...

[Jeff V]

Very interesting thread, IMO.


I´m not thinking of the cap/caps discussed here.


I´m thinking of the...funny?...way of arguing. All the insults, all the **** throwing, the Kindergarten level.


If you know "The Big Secret", spit it out! Don´t give us that "oh, I don´t want to inform the fake makers"-bull****! How do you know there isn´t a fake maker or two among the "serious collectors", "the experts"?...

Amen.
The sad thing for me is that it is going to be extremely difficult for any new collector to collect these cloth items. We have been told "that new collectors have to examine real items in hand to learn their craft". How does one do that? Go to a show which is filled with dealers of fakes claiming their stuff is real? Now we can't authenticate many cloth items on the forum. Needs an in hand inspection by a so called "expert". At what point does the sky fall in on these m43s?

[jacquesf]

I was nailed with a fake black m43 by one of the top experts and respected authors in this field. People still believe he is God. J

[Lenny W]

I still don't know why the original poster isn't posting detailed pictures of The Whole cap

[Persson83]

The funny thing here is that the guys that has have my cap in their hand are 100% sure of it.
It would be the end of their company if they was selling fake. I trust them to 100%.

[jacquesf]

The funny thing here is that the guys that has have my cap in their hand are 100% sure of it.
It would be the end of their company if they was selling fake. I trust them to 100%.

Please don't take offence to my comment, but that is a very naive position to take in this hobby. I have purchased from peter with zero problems, but other or most celebrity dealers and authors has all been known to sell fakes, knowingly, unknowingly and has been exposed and they all still funtioning as nothing has happened. J

[Glenn McInnes]

The funny thing here is that the guys that has have my cap in their hand are 100% sure of it.

It would be the end of their company if they was selling fake. I trust them to 100%.

A classic case of buying the seller and not the item.


But as long as YOU like it that is all that really matters until it comes time to sell.





Glenn

[jacquesf]

A classic case of buying the seller and not the item.


But as long as YOU like it that is all that really matters until it comes time to sell.





Glenn

and that is exactly the mistake I made , to which I refered in my earlier post. J