another "unknown" M40 tropical cap name

[Tim O'Keefe]

Yes you are right Daniel, I must try and overcome my shyness and speak up more

In reply to your question, I do not think many would entertain any doubts about that,

Chris

So do You have any Proof whatsoever ? Or just a poor response ? Just as we thought it's a complete BS story...this thread is a joke

[Tim O'Keefe]

This seller produce very well made Feldgrau and black piped M34/40 Overseas cap and Panzer/Stug wrapps since 7/8 years. Be careful with him...

Hi Alex

Can you post any examples from Kai Winkler that are known to have been made by his group ?

thanks
Tim

[90th Light]

So do You have any Proof whatsoever ? Or just a poor response ? Just as we thought it's a complete BS story...this thread is a joke

No problems Tim,

I have just posted him the affidavit to sign, have properly witnessed and send back to me in the self-addressed envelope

Really Tim, this is news to you ???

Well I am surprised in more than one way, given the length of time you have been interested in Afrika and tropical here on WAF. Plus, are you not a "Veteran DAK Member" on the Afrikakorps forum ? Do they not know this there ?

Or is it just that you want the tropical M40 cap which started this thread to be the real-deal so badly ?

Then I apologise for being the bearer of bad news Tim but please do not shoot the messenger,

Chris

[Lodsworth]

Summary of 1941-dated ALMI M41

For
Acceptable exterior fabric, model and overall construction for 1941-dated cap
Plausible riveting for zinc eyelet
Known manufacturer of tropical (if not M40) caps
Known variability in cap stamps by this and other manufacturers
Authentic insignia, seen on other caps of this date (e.g. a Weissbach on VirtualGrenadier)
Similarly early use of depot letter on aforementioned Weissbach
Depot stamp suggested to be F/M, not the incorrect M that is visible

Against
Previously unknown maker of M40 caps
Rivet said to be steel — in which case it is anachronistic and has too many petals
No enamel coating to eyelet exterior
Big eyelet holes
Stamp different to this maker's other 1941 stamps
Early (but perhaps not impossible) cockade for a cap of this date
Lining material challenged
Slightly odd patina to eyelets

Other observations
Mint (important in assessing eyelets)
Same green thread throughout exterior (can't see that attaching the eagle)

Has anyone actually had their hands on this cap? Can we get any input on "feel"?

[Tim O'Keefe]

The Brick Smock of M40's ?

Ok Chris, as i mentioned several well known dealer's in Germany come to mind as far as having their own "backdoor factory"....no problem if we can't find the link from emedals to Winkler or whomever yet...
Lets keep workin on it.

Are these the "Brick Smock's" of M40's ?
Again it is fortunate that all three caps recently posted were offered from the same dealer as individually each cap will be a problem in the future. Is this cap from the same source i wonder ? There is one flaw that does bother me about these caps that has not been mentioned yet but am not going to help the faker.

Chris and i go way back and like to spar from time to time buy always for the same cause in the end

Cheers Mate !
Tim

[Lodsworth]

I doubt there's very much any of us could teach the faker(s) of these caps, so why not tell us about the flaw they all share and that all of us (well, me at least) have missed? I have looked again at the "ALMI". There's a mismatch between the condition of the interior, which appears to be immaculate, and the exterior, which has rubbed up against something rust-coloured. The interior stitching is the same colour as the exterior stitching, which is often not the case on authentic caps, but not exactly a flaw. The "I" in "ALMI" is narrower than the other letters, another difference between its stamp and the others that have been posted. That's all I can see. But these additional observations of course don't apply to "these" caps, only the "ALMI".
Mike

[RGD51]

There are inside construction details which can be felt in hand, pix will not reveal them, you need in hand inspection. Some collectors may site that eagles wingspan as yet another glich that gives the fake ALMI away. The early caps used smaller eagles.

Robt.
Ps.....one color thread thru out is quite exceptable and the norm. Sometimes soutache thread may differ if the machine operator did not change out to match the color of the soutache.

[90th Light]

Ok Chris, as i mentioned several well known dealer's in Germany come to mind as far as having their own "backdoor factory"....no problem if we can't find the link from emedals to Winkler or whomever yet...
Lets keep workin on it.

Are these the "Brick Smock's" of M40's ?
Again it is fortunate that all three caps recently posted were offered from the same dealer as individually each cap will be a problem in the future. Is this cap from the same source i wonder ? There is one flaw that does bother me about these caps that has not been mentioned yet but am not going to help the faker.

Chris and i go way back and like to spar from time to time buy always for the same cause in the end

Cheers Mate !
Tim

Tim, I agree, in my experience some German dealers have networked in the same way some UK dealers have. However my focus, who is the center of the web ?

Also I would like to apologise to you for personal comments made in my moments of frustration with these fakes. It is the fakers who deserve "Thor’s Hammer" not the genuine collectors trying to work it all out.

You are right, a few years have passed by now that we have both been sharing our enthusiasm for such subjects on WAF,

Chris

[Lodsworth]

Some collectors may site that eagles wingspan as yet another glich that gives the fake ALMI away. The early caps used smaller eagles.

Interesting point. I haven't measured many eagles — a definite weakness in my research — but I see what you mean; it does look a little wide. Thanks Robert
Mike

[Alex Ciavaglia]

Hi Alex

Can you post any examples from Kai Winkler that are known to have been made by his group ?

thanks
Tim

Hi Tim,
some years ago i posted a thread on WAF where, in Winkler's site, appared many m34 Feldmütze (10-12), all with different Waffenfarbe, all from the same producer (Fritz Polmann, invented?), all in brand new conditions, all with many red flags on the construction. My intentions were to know what other guys thought about them. A week later, appeared a Panzer wrap with the same Fritz Pohlmann maker marking inside ! (same font and dimension of the Feldmütze ones).
Again...
Now is still present a M40 Panzer Feldmütze made by Mertes Nachf. (invented?) made without piping and dated 1941! (i have handled it...) Nothing so scandalous, but if you try to think that he sold other two of the same Panzer caps, all with the same maker and same date of construction, you would think that, as i usually do, 3 evidences constitute a crime...

[RGD51]

Interesting point. I haven't measured many eagles — a definite weakness in my research — but I see what you mean; it does look a little wide. Thanks Robert
Mike

Indeed, thats where we are in regards to almost all aspects to correctly authenticate these caps.....cockades, eagles and when they were used coupled with correct eyelets and backing washers. The inner reinforcement details and correct period fabrics. The proper forward lean to the cap, a visor that comes down to or past the second eyelet. Theres alot to have in the head when you assess these and the perfect fakes are already in circulation.... theyre the so called originals sitting on the shelves in the war rooms of hapless dupes worldwide.

Robt.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Tim,
some years ago i posted a thread on WAF where, in Winkler's site, appared many m34 Feldmütze (10-12), all with different Waffenfarbe, all from the same producer (Fritz Polmann, invented?), all in brand new conditions, all with many red flags on the construction. My intentions were to know what other guys thought about them. A week later, appeared a Panzer wrap with the same Fritz Pohlmann maker marking inside ! (same font and dimension of the Feldmütze ones).
Again...
Now is still present a M40 Panzer Feldmütze made by Mertes Nachf. (invented?) made without piping and dated 1941! (i have handled it...) Nothing so scandalous, but if you try to think that he sold other two of the same Panzer caps, all with the same maker and same date of construction, you would think that, as i usually do, 3 evidences constitute a crime...

Thanks Alex

Searched for the thread & the Pz wrap but could not find them ? Can you provide the link ? Seem to remember something about this and would like to followup.

[Tim O'Keefe]

I doubt there's very much any of us could teach the faker(s) of these caps, so why not tell us about the flaw they all share and that all of us (well, me at least) have missed?
Mike

Don't think that too many collectors would agree with this ? You give a misplaced credit to the fakers. Not suprising when you look at your list. Other than the steel grommets just about every "against" could be on the "it's possible" or the "For" list. We need to be careful not to be so quick to condemn any cap without a hand's on.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Indeed, thats where we are in regards to almost all aspects to correctly authenticate these caps.....cockades, eagles and when they were used coupled with correct eyelets and backing washers. The inner reinforcement details and correct period fabrics. The proper forward lean to the cap, a visor that comes down to or past the second eyelet. Theres alot to have in the head when you assess these and the perfect fakes are already in circulation.... theyre the so called originals sitting on the shelves in the war rooms of hapless dupes worldwide.

Robt.

Agree Great post would add that the stitch lines are also an important point.. Many will find their beloved DAK cap is crap when they go to try to sell it. Unless they sell it on facebook which is the currently the pigion feed for the inexperienced collector vs dubious seller.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Tim, I agree, in my experience some German dealers have networked in the same way some UK dealers have. However my focus, who is the center of the web ?

Also I would like to apologise to you for personal comments made in my moments of frustration with these fakes. It is the fakers who deserve "Thor’s Hammer" not the genuine collectors trying to work it all out.

You are right, a few years have passed by now that we have both been sharing our enthusiasm for such subjects on WAF,

Chris

with appreciation Chris

There are those reading this thread that could put an end to all the mystery in one simple post but are not willing to. To risk their advantage or indifference or even maybe fear. i ask those, why protect who ever ?