W-SS Officer's Visor from Wilkins book

[codytrcollector]

WRF or WarRelicsForum...which is a wonderful place, though I think we should leave the personalities out of this as it'll only detract from the topic at hand. It's no secret not too many people like the guy, especially myself, but the facts remain, he does exceed the majority from all fora by providing real period evidence and information based upon several examples he owns, something that's quite different than the (possibly) uneducated opinions so often encountered. Be bigger than he is...leave him be to lobby day and night that this is the "moron" site or whatever negativity he feels he must project. Who knows what he has going on in his head or how happy he really is(or isn't). Point being, just don't allow it to effect you and your passion for collecting.

After reviewing this comment I made the other day I find it was in poor taste and done in the heat of the moment, though that's no excuse. My apologies for such a useless post to all the forum members here--now back to your regularly scheduled militaria discussions.

[BaselA]

After reviewing this comment I made the other day I find it was in poor taste and done in the heat of the moment, though that's no excuse. My apologies for such a useless post to all the forum members here--now back to your regularly scheduled militaria discussions.

No need to apologize IMO. I don't think anyone here would interpret your comment as being in poor taste.

IMO, someone has also attempted to flatten or smooth out the sweatband with a steam iron or a hat stretcher.

Comparing it with Turbo's original cap is a mistake I think because there is nothing similar about the two caps.

Ideally, we need to find another cap with this "Modern" or "Mobern" logo to make a comparison but I've not been able to find one although the logo does look familiar to me.

Ben, I agree - Turbo's cap is a completely different animal. Doeskin cap body and officer quality interior by CW (a known W-SS headgear monopolizer).

If you look at some of the creases in the leather, it looks as if they were caused by attempts to look "under the hood" rather than an ironing.

I'm hoping that I will receive some new photos this afternoon

[BaselA]

Just received these.

[BaselA]

Last one - apparently the sweatband is fragile, making it difficult to photograph the entire circumference.

[enorepap]

A self-hold lining

Actually in another context it would be a sexy thing , but in this case it is in my opinion a decisive confirmation of the doubts

Reasoning with consequential logic, at this point, everything could be assembled, quite a few years ago, to produce a very attractive but completely fake visor.

Another myth that collapses ...

[N.C. Wyeth]

Looks like it was well-made, by someone with talent - and almost like it came out of a time-machine. Even the cheesecloth appears to be sparkling white in those photos. If it is a ground-up reproduction, it's awfully well done . . . but I'm still curious why the prongs on the eagle were pushed through the lining - visible on the inside. If you were going to make something like this, ground-up - and had that kind of talent - why wouldn't you hide the prongs behind the lining, like most other cap manufacturers did? Like I said, IF it is a repro - it's an awfully nice one . . .

[BaselA]

A self-hold lining

Actually in another context it would be a sexy thing , but in this case it is in my opinion a decisive confirmation of the doubts

Reasoning with consequential logic, at this point, everything could be assembled, quite a few years ago, to produce a very attractive but completely fake visor.

Another myth that collapses ...

Is this what you're referring to - that the lining is not secured? The holes are there, it seems.

[enorepap]

The holes are there and they are also far enough away to indicate that here once was an extended zig-zag wire, presumably sewn in a V-shape. But where's it? Also, as you can see from shot n. 34, it remained some wire on other parts (at least in part) but the seam seems considerably more simple and based on a single point. These two remarks, in my opinion confirms that the originality of the lining is not in question, but rather that it did not belong to this specific visor, in the sense that the two things were not made in the same time.

[stonemint]

The holes are there and they are also far enough away to indicate that here once was an extended zig-zag wire, presumably sewn in a V-shape. But where's it? Also, as you can see from shot n. 34, it remained some wire on other parts (at least in part) but the seam seems considerably more simple and based on a single point. These two remarks, in my opinion confirms that the originality of the lining is not in question, but rather that it did not belong to this specific visor, in the sense that the two things were not made in the same time.

I agree with Marcello. Empty lining holes on an otherwise stonemint cap is always a cause for concern.

Also, there is no purpose to the black thread and the holes (other than to try and cover up the fact that the pasteboard is being re-used).

[N.C. Wyeth]

The holes are there and they are also far enough away to indicate that here once was an extended zig-zag wire, presumably sewn in a V-shape. But where's it?

Ah - that's what you meant by saying, "a self-hold lining"! Those are some critical stitches to be missing . . . and the holes certainly do correspond.

[BaselA]

I agree with Marcello. Empty lining holes on an otherwise stonemint cap is always a cause for concern.

Also, there is no purpose to the black thread and the holes (other than to try and cover up the fact that the pasteboard is being re-used).

I can't figure out the black thread through the holes in the pasteboard, either.

There seems to be a remnant of the stitching in the area behind the TK. However, the thread used to secure the other areas of the lining seems to be a heavier gauge. The sewing does look rather amateur.

[BenVK]

The only plausible reason for those black thread stitches through the pasteboard is because of an embroidered wreath.

For example.

Heer and Luftwaffe wreath sewing.

[enorepap]

Hallo Ben

Surely not a skull

What about a metal device?

[N.C. Wyeth]

The only plausible reason for those black thread stitches through the pasteboard is because of an embroidered wreath.

Good call - that would make sense . . .

[SgtB]

I dunno. Without a hands-on, I won't share an opinion. I hear very good arguments pro and con.

The only thing I don't like on the obverse is the texture of the visor. And the only thing I don't really like on the interior can be chalked up to being just too anal. These caps were not always "perfect" to a (very) postwar collector's analysis. I've seen poor or missing stitching on linings of countless original caps.

The lower rim fabric is mildly suspicious but not alarming, and I have seen this MM on other caps, and I don't recall it being an issue.