W-SS Officer's Visor from Wilkins book

[BaselA]

Some of you may recognize this cap - it is pictured in the Gary Wilkins book as an example of a private purchase SS officer's cap. It is currently listed on the Oakleaf "collector connection." The recent discussion on the Karl Wolf SS white top lead me there, and I came across this listing.

I have a few questions about this cap - from the exterior it is a wonderful looking piece. The eskimo wool body is a refreshing alternative to all the trikot kleiderkasse caps we see so often.

The interior, however, concerns me. Given this was a private purchase piece, is it fair to expect that the interior would not resemble the type seen in contract NCO caps? The maker (Modern) is not one I have personally seen before - has anyone here?

[BenVK]

Fairly sure I've seen maybe one or two other caps before with this logo but it is a strange interior for an SS Officers cap.

[N.C. Wyeth]

I have a few questions about this cap - from the exterior it is a wonderful looking piece. The eskimo wool body is a refreshing alternative to all the trikot kleiderkasse caps we see so often.

The interior, however, concerns me. Given this was a private purchase piece, is it fair to expect that the interior would not resemble the type seen in contract NCO caps? The maker (Modern) is not one I have personally seen before - has anyone here?

I'm with you BaselA - your comment sums up my initial thoughts from those two photos. For such a fine quality cap on the outside, I too would have expected the interior to be of similar character. Assuming what we see is truly a contract-quality lining, it would make me take a step back - but from the photo alone, it appears to be so well done, perhaps it can be explained? Don't have my reference close by at the moment, but my mind tells me I've seen a combination like this before - with a cap for an SD Officer or something. When time permits, I'll see what I can dig up. There are so many things we don't know - but even so, such a lining in such a cap would take a lot of convincing for me to feel comfortable about it. Contract linings in quality SS Officer caps aren't really every day circumstances. Can't really fault it for being so, but I have trouble with a sweat band being joined at the side of a cap too. Not that it didn't happen - but it still troubles me for some reason. Will be interesting to see what everyone else has to say . . . maybe on the other forum, the Cheerleader will come out and start another psychoanalytical photo mosaic about it?

[BaselA]

Contract linings in quality SS Officer caps aren't really every day circumstances. Can't really fault it for being so, but I have trouble with a sweat band being joined at the side of a cap too. Not that it didn't happen - but it still troubles me for some reason. Will be interesting to see what everyone else has to say . . . maybe on the other forum, the Cheerleader will come out and start another psychoanalytical photo mosaic about it?

Completely agree. Just because we don't see it often, doesn't automatically disqualify.

I have certainly seen nice original WH caps with the sweatband seam on the side, but most of those have been NCO caps. Check out the photo I've attached - I notice two interesting creases in the sweatband toward the back. I'm not sure if they're seams or just creases in the leather.

Obviously more photos would be very helpful. Maybe I'm paranoid, but my overall concern is that this was rebuilt.

It has a real beefy "extramutze" look on the outside that just doesn't match the interior.

[PZKG]

What is "the other forum"?

[BaselA]

What is "the other forum"?

He's referring to warrelics

[codytrcollector]

What is "the other forum"?

WRF or WarRelicsForum...which is a wonderful place, though I think we should leave the personalities out of this as it'll only detract from the topic at hand. It's no secret not too many people like the guy, especially myself, but the facts remain, he does exceed the majority from all fora by providing real period evidence and information based upon several examples he owns, something that's quite different than the (possibly) uneducated opinions so often encountered. Be bigger than he is...leave him be to lobby day and night that this is the "moron" site or whatever negativity he feels he must project. Who knows what he has going on in his head or how happy he really is(or isn't). Point being, just don't allow it to effect you and your passion for collecting.

[billbert]

Just a comment about sweatband ending on side of hat...not common...not uncommon..Take at look at the WH visor with matching crusher posted by ChrisH...The CRUSHER has its sweatband ending on the side almost up at the visor..NEVER saw a crusher done this way...BUT there it is..
Billbert

[BaselA]

Just a comment about sweatband ending on side of hat...not common...not uncommon..Take at look at the WH visor with matching crusher posted by ChrisH...The CRUSHER has its sweatband ending on the side almost up at the visor..NEVER saw a crusher done this way...BUT there it is..
Billbert

A great point. I once owned an Erel crusher that had a side seam as well. I've seen a few configured that way

The seam, by itself, as not an issue with this particular cap IMO.

[BenVK]

Can we at least get some photos that are in focus?

[BaselA]

These are the images that were sent to me. Not sure what, if anything, you will be able to glean from them. I don't see any red flags, personally.

The areas I circled before just turned out to be indents in the leather, not seams.

[BaselA]

More

[N.C. Wyeth]

WRF or WarRelicsForum...which is a wonderful place . . . Point being, just don't allow it to effect you and your passion for collecting.

Have to agree - it is a great place, "codytrcollector" . . . and does offer some very good information. I especially enjoy reading through the topics having a deep focus on historical sites that can still be found in present day. And no worries on my passion for collecting - that ain't goin' anywhere . . .

These are the images that were sent to me. Not sure what, if anything, you will be able to glean from them. I don't see any red flags, personally.

Try as much as I can, "BaselA" - and can't find anything on that other cap I recall. Maybe my memory fails me, and it doesn't exist - but I would swear I remember another Officer cap out there with an interior lining like this. I'll keep looking, and maybe something will turn up . . .

In the additional photos you posted, what's up with the insignia being pushed all the way through the lining? Looks to me like the cap eagle is at least . . . Not to say it didn't happen - but again, for something that shows so much quality on the outside [and in such excellent condition?], I would rather have seen the attachment enclosed behind the lining. Just a personal thing, I guess . . .

[N.C. Wyeth]

Apologies up front for the rant -but I got to vent . . .

So the conversation about the Finnish SS Officer cap continues - to some degree -even though the fear of fakers get's trumped up again . . . and this one drops off in dead silence? Funny thing about it is, I recall a comment not long ago - made by one of the very same persons that now cries fear of fakers on the Finnish cap - about how convincing it is that these caps could never be re-created, as the talent that made them no longer exists, and never will again. So I guess that idea just got tossed out the window over the sight of the Finnish cap . . . and any further talk about both that cap and this one has now become nothing less than taboo? Well . . . with that kind of play in the sand-box, it's no wonder why very little conversation exists on many of these topics any more. For the cost of a Membership, I guess we are all doomed to come here and forever read the "Is this cap/skull/deathshead ring/Waffen SS horseshoe/Soviet Combat Condom real" topics now . . .

[codytrcollector]

Hi Wyeth,
I wish I could add further assistance here but sometimes when you don't know it's best to just keep your mouth shut. I focus mainly on tunics--with a healthy interest in these visors--and wouldn't want to add anything that could potentially steer another collector into a wrong direction. That said, I do agree,,,it's unusual how this thread got so quite. These are the items that need to be debated the most in my opinion.