Panzer EM/NCO Overseas cap by Clemens Wagner

[all1knew]

and here is the stamp from another overseas cap deemed authentic by the forum.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks for the added photos. I don't think there are any issues with the CW makers stamp on the threadstarter. Its from the main CW factory.

[all1knew]

Thanks for the added photos. I don't think there are any issues with the CW makers stamp on the threadstarter. Its from the main CW factory.

I agree, just trying to further illustrate it being authentic. I sent this cap to Peter Whamond for hands-on inspection and he stated it passed all his test and he thought it was authentic. He then stated that a source (a member on WAF) told him otherwise (Clemens Wagner did not produce a Panzer garrison cap)

so once again just trying to get this out there as I simply don't think enough collectors know one way or the other. In a way, the silence within this thread speaks for itself, where are all the cap gurus?

William Kramer

[all1knew]

This one is fake!

yes, and here are additional photos of this cap, posted back in 2008

William Kramer

[all1knew]

authentic stamps and grommet variation for reference

[all1knew]

CW feldgrau 1940 with "classical" zinc grommets

[all1knew]

and here is the Richard P. cap with Braunschweig depot stamp.

[all1knew]

a previously reviewed cap:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=289703

[all1knew]

another

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks William for the added photos of the various original CW makers marks & grommets. At this point i don't think there is any doubt that CW made the Pz sidecap, or for that matter the tropical M40 The threadstarter is looking better imho.

[OSS]

I can't quite believe it.

After all is said and done, I still don't believe it to be genuine (the "threadstarter").

[nonameno]

Hello Gentlemen,
I must agree with Ramsey. Even after all of the discussion and comparisions, this is still not an overseas cap I would want in my collection (the thread starter panzer). In my experence, I have not seen a good early piped overseas cap with machine sewn eagle insignia. I have seen the cocade machine applied however.
Thank you,
Curtiss

[all1knew]

Hello Gentlemen,
I have not seen a good early piped overseas cap with machine sewn eagle insignia. I have seen the cocade machine applied however.
Thank you,
Curtiss

don't forget about the zig-zag stiched tropical eagle:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums//...3&postcount=21

and yet the lining is identical to the one on Bill Shea's site from the smaller CW depot.

I could be wrong but there are a lot of similarities that can't be ignored. From what I've seen, some CW caps have zipped eagles, some zig-zag, others straight hand sewn.

William Kramer

[nonameno]

Hi William,
Very good point regarding the insignia on the tropical overseas caps.
Thanks,
Curtiss

[Tim O'Keefe]

My understanding is that machine sewn insignia can be found on sidecaps as early as '39, ? certainly by 1940. At least one of the big six makers had machine sewn insignia on tropical sidecaps by 1940 for sure.

Williams cap has original insignia. The grommets are the correct type for CW sidecaps. The stamp is correct for one of the CW locations. So what am i missing that makes it a bad cap ?