dak cap

[sscrooge]

Hi guys, these caps scare me after seeing so may fakes so thought best to check it out ,any opinions welcomed ,these are only pics i have at the moment, cheers Dave

[sscrooge]

2

[B. N. Singer]

Hi guys, these caps scare me after seeing so may fakes so thought best to check it out ,any opinions welcomed ,these are only pics i have at the moment, cheers Dave

From those pictures, I could entertain doubts.

B. N. Singer

[TONY Q.W.]

I'm not convinced either. I would expect a maker's name mark for such early model. I'm curious how the grommets are like.

[Bond]

Better pics needed, when you can, and obviously grommet detail pics, inside and out are wanted, also insignia detail shots. The lining looks wrong is my first thought, but that could my screen.

Jerry

[billbert]

I want to like it..Its not quite like some other high tech fakes that have been around in the last deade or so... Billbert

[Richard P]

That first shot of the front looks great, although I have yet to see one of these with the small gauge soutache material. That does not mean bad...I just have not seen one that I believed original.

The hat does seem to go downhill with each new shot. I'm sure more photos of key parts will be revealing. Thanks for sharing as each of these can be a learning experience.

Richard

[BenVK]

First impressions are that it's a really nicely made copy.

[NZMark]

From those pictures, I could entertain doubts.

B. N. Singer

And I.
I'd want a hand's on inspection to convince me it's original. Intriguing.
No known maker's mark for officer's m40's? Not a good sign.
Mark

[Tim O'Keefe]

IMO Good insignia, bad cap. Have had one very similar to this one. Thin soutache, just a size marking, no makers mark. Eagle flipped over top sewn, then flipped down and finished, double stitch line just at the rear for a small portion. One difference is mine has a three part sweatband applied. Bill not sewn on in symmetrical fashion.
Photos of the grommets will confirm if this is the same "fake" maker for me.
If so it may be from Poland or Eastern Europe made in the 80's.

[sscrooge]

thanks guys for all your replies and help i have asked for pics of grommets so will post if they arrive, cheers Dave

[Bond]

IMO Good insignia, bad cap. Have had one very similar to this one. Thin soutache, just a size marking, no makers mark. Eagle flipped over top sewn, then flipped down and finished, double stitch line just at the rear for a small portion. One difference is mine has a three part sweatband applied. Bill not sewn on in symmetrical fashion.
Photos of the grommets will confirm if this is the same "fake" maker for me.
If so it may be from Poland or Eastern Europe made in the 80's.

I think the eagle might be one of these recent fakes. The cockade is oval with the indented ends which looks real, but it also looks a bit fluffy, so not sure on that.

I saw some very good fakes being sold from Germany on ebay about a year or two back, which this cap reminds me of.

Jerry

[Tim O'Keefe]

I think the eagle might be one of these recent fakes. The cockade is oval with the indented ends which looks real, but it also looks a bit fluffy, so not sure on that.

I saw some very good fakes being sold from Germany on ebay about a year or two back, which this cap reminds me of.

Jerry

Hi Jerry

Look Closely at the feet, your example has very weak claws, while this cap has strong ones. Swaz not the same either. But do agree better photos are needed to be sure....Thanks for posting your fake example though, as Richard mentions these caps can be a learning experience.

[90th Light]

IMO Good insignia, bad cap. Have had one very similar to this one. Thin soutache, just a size marking, no makers mark. Eagle flipped over top sewn, then flipped down and finished, double stitch line just at the rear for a small portion. One difference is mine has a three part sweatband applied. Bill not sewn on in symmetrical fashion.
Photos of the grommets will confirm if this is the same "fake" maker for me.
If so it may be from Poland or Eastern Europe made in the 80's.

Tim is correct on this except for one detail. No one knows when the caps were made but they were found in Poland after the Berlin Wall came down around the same time that the SS Pink Smocks and George P's Panzer sidecaps/ wraps were found. (There were reasonable numbers found, mostly EM but also officer. All with soutache as far as I know).

I can tell you now that when you see the inside of the grommets, you will not like them because it is an aluminum type not accepted by collectors (There are some very rare aluminum grommets but this is not one of the accepted types. Keep in mind also how expensive aluminum was in the 1940's compared with today to be using it for grommets).

In fact "Pink Smock" sums it up because that is what they are. They are the "Pink Smock" of tropical M40's. The construction is excellent, the eagle and cockade are original. They look good in every way except for the lack of makers name and the Al grommets.

The biggest thing against them is the fact that I have not found one advanced collector of DAK or tropical German who has ever had one from a veteran source. No one had ever seen this maker until the early 1990's when they appeared found in Poland in unissued condition. Another factor also against them is the analysis of German photos of the time has not revealed any caps of that makers style being worn.

The thing that has amazes me however, is the consistancy of the production and the use of the exact same original eagle and cockade. Who ever made them had access to an on-going supply of period insignia, cloth, thread etc.

The one question asked by some is, are they a tropical cap used on the Eastern front for example by units in the south of Russia but not sent to Afrika because they were made in the north of Germany/ Reich for supply of units in Russia and thus logistically closer to where needed because caps made at factories more in the south were all given priority for Afrika ?
This is a question worth asking but just like the SS "Pink Smock" debate many collectors say "No way", close but no cigar.

Also like the Pink Smocks if they are cheap enough then they are probably worth picking up,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Tim is correct on this except for one detail. No one knows when the caps were made but they were found in Poland after the Berlin Wall came down around the same time that the SS Pink Smocks and George P's Panzer sidecaps/ wraps were found.

The one question asked by some is do they represent an example of a tropical cap used on the Eastern front for example by units in the south of Russia but not sent to Afrika because they were made in the north of Germany ?
This is a question worth asking but just like the SS "Pink Smock" debate many collectors say "No way", close but no cigar.

Chris

Hi Chris

Thanks for clarification. The grommet size is slighty smaller than most excepted tropical caps too. But since we Western collectors have seen so few of the Eastern Front tropical caps (if any) it is rather difficult to really know what is bad and what is good. But as others have mentioned a soutached M40 without a makers stamp and only a size stamp does not help these caps.....

I question if the tropical caps used in Russia were made by different makers or not ?